> Abdul Fatteh Questions about Qur'anic Scientific miracles.

[Hassan_Abd_Allah]

Assalamu 'Alaikum wa rahmatullah.

This particular thread is very important to me, since if these questions are answered then I hope my heart and mind would be relieved to have gotten rid of a number of enduring confusions. Also, I think after this mess is resolved, I should have no more intellectual doubts in my mind about the truth of the Qur'an.

We are aware that there are various miracles of the Qur'an, however, this particular thread is only about the scientific verses.

Starting easy: about the well known Miracles of Mountains set as pegs.

When a Muslim says that this verse(s): "HAve we not set the earth as a wide expanse, and the mountains as Pegs?" is miraculous, he assumes that this verse is talking about the shape of a mountain, i.e. that the mountains are SHAPED like pegs. However, this verse merely says mountains are set AS pegs which can mean that mountains were set to perform the function of pegs, which is holding something in its proper place. This is more evident once we read from Surat al Ambiyaa, where there is a verse which says that God set mountains standing FIRM, lest it should shake with them. So if we take this interpretation of "peg" then it can mean that the Qur'an is saying that mountains perform the duty of pegs, holding something in its proper place. This seems to be a sceintific inaccuracy.

Also, Islamophobes assume that this verse implies that Mountains act as pegs in order to keep the crust of the earth in its place, which again is scientific inaccuracy. Also, when the Qur'an says mountains are set firm so that the earth doesnt shake, it again brings up another problem that although mountains may act as earthquake insulators, they do not NEGATE the earthquakes, which this verse claims: "lest it(earth) should shake".

Kamran Mirza the Islamophobe, for example, assumes that Muhammad(saws) saw the huge bulk of mountains and assumed that these act as paperweights; therefore it holds the crust in place "lest it should shake".

These are parallel interpretations of the verse. What Im asking is:

a) In which ways is the interpretation "Mountains are shaped like pegs" more accurate than the interpretation "Mountains act as pegs"? <arabic help might come in handy>

b) In which ways is the interpretation "mountains lessen earthquakes" more accurate than the interpretation "mountains negate earthquakes"?

If two interpretations are equally acceptable then it means we can take either, therefore it ceases to be a scientific miracle. So do we have any proof that the interpretation which adheres to science is more accurate than the one which promotes an error?

These are my basic questions. A little addition in the next post inshAllah because that is a slightly different issue.

[Hassan_Abd_Allah]

Later, I checked out a geology site which answers this question of whether mountains stabilize the crust or not.

The reply is, if illustrated with an analogy, whether or not mountains stabilize the crust is like the question whether or not a wrinkle on an apple stop its shrinking. the answer is: very little, or minute.

Plus, thie following video addresses Harun Yahya's view on this matter. I havent that much respect for Harun Yahya, but it addresses the claims that the Mountains doesnt stabilize the crust. Do check it out inshAllah.

YouTube- Refuting 'Miracles In The Quran: The Function of Mountains'

YouTube- Refuting 'Miracles In The Quran: The Function of Mountains'

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

So if we take this interpretation of "peg" then it can mean that the Qur'an is saying that mountains perform the duty of pegs, holding something in its proper place. This seems to be a sceintific inaccuracy. Also, Islamophobes assume that this verse implies that Mountains act as pegs in order to keep the crust of the earth in its place, which again is scientific inaccuracy.

Not at all, both explanations are scientifically accurate. Mountains do hold the tectonic plates together and also do function as buffer against earthquakes! There's plenty of research confirming this, don't let these pseudo-scientists tell you otherwise. The problem is, although mountains do all this, they are in the first place created by the movement of the tectonic plates and earthquakes. Therefor people naturally assume that since they are created by it, they cannot afterwards negate the effect. But that assumption is wrong. While it is true that Allah subhana wa ta'ala creates mountains trough tectonic movement and earthquakes; once that those mountains are big enough they do counter the effect. In that sense the analogy with the apple is also very deceiving. The two are hardly comparable. The presence of mountains, especially the older and bigger ones has a huge effect in buffering earthquakes. But don't just take my word for it, there's some links in the copy paste from my website:

The descriptions of the root of mountains and their function.
The Qur'an says:
Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs? (78:6-7)
The part saying "mountains as pegs" is not vague. It gives a clear view of their shape, and this has been confirmed by science, and there was no way to discover these things without our current scientific advancement. If we look at an early tefsir made prior to scientific discoveries it's also clear that this is not a make-fit-translation:
Tafsir ibn kathir
And here's a scientific article that confirms the shape of mountains:
Beneath the mountains

In an earlier verse we see:
And We have placed on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them, and We placed therein broad highways for them to pass through, that they may be guided. (21:31)
Here the Qur'an goes further, not only telling us the shape of mountains, but also their function. Again the early tefisr:
Tefsir Ibn Kathir
Article explaining how research confirms the function of mountains as insulators for earthquakes:
Effects of Large-Scale Surface Topography on Ground Motions

Copy paste from that last link:

We investigate the effects of large-scale surface topography on ground motions generated by nearby faulting. We show a specific example studying the effect of the San Gabriel Mountains, which are bounded by the Mojave segment of the San Andreas fault on the north and by the Los Angeles Basin on the south. By simulating a Mw 7.5 earthquake on the Mojave segment of the San Andreas fault, we show that the San Gabriel Mountains act as a natural seismic insulator for metropolitan Los Angeles. The topography of the mountains scatters the surface waves generated by the rupture on the San Andreas fault, leading to less-efficient excitation of basin-edge generated waves and natural resonances within the Los Angeles Basin.
The effect of the mountains reduces the peak amplitude of ground velocity for some regions in the basin by as much as 50% in the frequency band up to 0.5 Hz.
These results suggest that, depending on the relative location of faulting and the nearby large-scale topography, the topography can shield some areas from ground shaking.

[Haqekka']

,,Dr. Zahlool Al-Najjar is a great Muslim Geologist and Scientist who wrote many books, publications , and 10s of journals and reports proving many of the Noble Quranic Geological and Scientific Claims to be accurate through Modern Science and Technologies.
He is well known in the Scientists community of Geology in both the US and Europe, because much of his work and research, especially during his early days of scientific research, was done in these countries while he resided and studied in them.''

his web site is not running,but may be you can find his researches.

and i want to make a note:
Qur'an is not a scientific book,but a book of signs.
So seek refuge from shaytaan when you have doubts!

[Hassan_Abd_Allah]

Assalamu 'Alaikum all, I finally got my net fixed :-)

Not at all, both explanations are scientifically accurate. Mountains do hold the tectonic plates together and also do function as buffer against earthquakes!

Jazak Allah Khair for taking the time to answer bro, would you please supply any evidence(links etc) on this claim i.e. the mountains clench the tectonic plates like a peg? The youtube video I posted above says otherwise, so please clarify this for me. Id prefer links from secular sites rather than Islamic ones lol.

The part saying "mountains as pegs" is not vague. It gives a clear view of their shape, and this has been confirmed by science, and there was no way to discover these things without our current scientific advancement.

Yes,it gives a clear view of their shape. However the function of a peg is to hold a picture to the wall ora tent to the ground, etc. Do the mountains perform this function? Again, I would really appreciate some more info <links etc> on this.

Im real glad I started this thread! Couple more visits here and it sbye bye Hassans stupid confusions InshAllah!!! :D

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum;
Akhi, I already gave you the links you're asking for in the previous post.

[Hassan_Abd_Allah]

Jazak Allah Khayr for your answer bro, let me ask a few more questions,

By simulating a Mw 7.5 earthquake on the Mojave segment of the San Andreas fault, we show that the San Gabriel Mountains act as a natural seismic insulator for metropolitan Los Angeles.

I dont really understand whether this is talking about the mountains holding the tectonic plates together.

The topography of the mountains scatters the surface waves generated by the rupture on the San Andreas fault, leading to less-efficient excitation of basin-edge generated waves and natural resonances within the Los Angeles Basin.

This sentence isnt talking about mountains gripping the plates either, far as I see it with my limited knowledge.

These results suggest that, depending on the relative location of faulting and the nearby large-scale topography, the topography can shield some areas from ground shaking.

Does it mean mountains only act as seismic insulators in only certain places and its not a general function of the mountains?

Please clarify.

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum

I dont really understand whether this is talking about the mountains holding the tectonic plates together.

They simulated an earthquake (I assume by use of explosives) near the area where the 2 tectonic plates meet. And found that the mountains buffered the quake.

Does it mean mountains only act as seismic insulators in only certain places and its not a general function of the mountains?

No, this is the only conclusion from this specific research, because that is the only thing they examined. It does not exclude that mountains can have other beneficial effects on tectonic movement.

As for wheter or not mountains slow down tectonic movement, while it is not mentioned explicitly, it should be evident from the other link which explains the shape of mountains. One can deduce this from a very basic formula. If the tectonic plates push with a certain force (F) and there is a mountain in the way with mass (m) then the momentum of the tectonic plate will be harvested to push forward the mountain in acceleration (a). Thanks to Isaac Newton we know that F=ma. So if the force F in that formula remains constant, we see that the as mass m increases, the accelaration caused by teh force will decrease and vice versa. Or in english, the heavier the mountain, the more force it takes for tectonic plates to move it.

[saifudheen]

MashaAllah :)