> which is the correct translation for this ayat?

[salamfromrom]

salam a leikum


Brilliant refutations . These are the most comprehensive and complete arguments against the attackers that I have ever read.

As the article says, it is a real shame that so many people who have little knowledge of Islam choose to throw their weak and unfounded arguments in the discussion thereby creating more confusion (just what the atackers want) instead of referring the matter to scholars such as the noble shaykhs in the above mentioned articles.

May Allah(swt) Bless you with Firdaws brothers!
This is truly the best Islamic forum I have ever had the priviledge to visit.

[Mr.Popat]

"And God said to Jesus, son of Mary: 'Did you ask men to take you and your mother for objects of worship beside Almighty God?' He answered: 'Praise be to You, O God! How can I have asked that which is not mine to ask? If I did, You know it and all that is in my mind. I do not know what is in Your mind, O Transcendent, All- Knowing God! I have not conveyed to them except what You have commanded me to convey, namely, Worship and serve God, my and your only Lord. I was a witness for You in their midst. When You caused me to die, You took over the witnessing on them as well as on all else. If You punish them, they are Your creatures; and if You forgive them, You are the Mighty, the Wise" [Qur'an 5:116-118].

Hazrat Jesus (AS) is dead and is no more alive. It is proved by this verse, as well as other verses in Quran.

[salman]

^Mr. Popat, welcome and please read the forum rules to make sure that you do not get in trouble for making plain deviant assertions like what you have done above. You can put it in form of a question or needing clarification and then start a discussion form there on. I know you are a ahmadi (qadyani) and if you would like to continue this discussion then please start a new thread in this section

PS: you are not a Muslim and it would be better if you change your 'way of life' to something else, thanks

[Mr.Popat]

^ Salman, thank you for welcoming me.

The thread started asked for the meaning of the verse about Hazrat Isa (AS). What people here posted are their opinions and what i wrote is mine, and i hope you respect my opinion just like you respected other people's opinions. Thank you.

PS: How did you jump to the conclusion that i am an Ahmadi. It has got nothing to with the thread topic in hand. I refuse to change my 'way of life' to anything other than Muslim as I believe in Allah, Muhammad (SAW), Allah's final book Quran.

I also suggest you to read forum rule #10 , which says everyone has the freedom of speech and their opinions, and you are NOT allowed to label eachother with names and give your fatwas. I suggest you also follow the rules you're suggesting me to follow.. we will inshallah have productive discussions in the future.. Learn to respect other people's opinions as well bro. Not all of them will agree with you on every single thing. Thank you.

[salman]

^let us not try to pull fast one, shall we?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

The thread started asked for the meaning of the verse about Hazrat Isa (AS). What people here posted are their opinions and what i wrote is mine, and i hope you respect my opinion just like you respected other people's opinions. Thank you.

we respect the opinions, but at the same time we do not allow promotion of falsehood (rule # 3). Like I said, you cannot make plain assertions like that which are not in accordance with Islamic creed, but if you want to have a discussion and present your opinions then you are welcome but do so in a form of a question or clarification.

In fact, I would like to have a detail discussion with you, insha'Allah. Look forward to it

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

How did you jump to the conclusion that i am an Ahmadi. It has got nothing to with the thread topic in hand.

off course it is off-topic, but I wanted to make it clear to everyone about your set of belief. So you are not an ahmadi? Are you not the same Popat from gupshup?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I refuse to change my 'way of life' to anything other than Muslim as I believe in Allah, Muhammad (SAW), Allah's final book Quran.

actually you do not despite your claim. Did you forget to add your dajjal Mirza in the list? Or are you too ashamed to admit your belief?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I also suggest you to read forum rule #10 , which says everyone has the freedom of speech and their opinions, and you are NOT allowed to label eachother with names and give your fatwas.

all the rules must be understood within context, meaning some the rules are related to each other. Opinions are allowed and we respect them but no promotion of falsehood with plain assertions period. As far labeling, you tried your best to get me but too bad:

1 - read the whole thing, it says: "do not label each other with names and give your 'fatwas' unless you have sufficient Islamic evidence(s) to backup your claims". We got enough evidence to against you and you are declared kafir by whole Muslim ummah

2 - The rule actually is applicable only to people within Sunnah, meaning the Ahlus Sunnah on this board are not allowed to give fatawa labels against each other UNLESS they have some evidence for it. The outright kaffirs like yourself or murtad like many hadith rejectors and modernists have nothing to do with this.

Again, the rules are to be understood within the context of other rules and the mission statement of the website.

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I suggest you also follow the rules you're suggesting me to follow.. we will inshallah have productive discussions in the future.. Learn to respect other people's opinions as well bro. Not all of them will agree with you on every single thing. Thank you.

allhamdulillah, thank you for the reminder.

[Mr.Popat]

Originally Posted by salman

^let us not try to pull fast one, shall we?

we respect the opinions, but at the same time we do not allow promotion of falsehood (rule # 3). Like I said, you cannot make plain assertions like that which are not in accordance with Islamic creed, but if you want to have a discussion and present your opinions then you are welcome but do so in a form of a question or clarification.

In fact, I would like to have a detail discussion with you, insha'Allah. Look forward to it

off course it is off-topic, but I wanted to make it clear to everyone about your set of belief. So you are not an ahmadi? Are you not the same Popat from gupshup?

actually you do not despite your claim. Did you forget to add your dajjal Mirza in the list? Or are you too ashamed to admit your belief?

all the rules must be understood within context, meaning some the rules are related to each other. Opinions are allowed and we respect them but no promotion of falsehood with plain assertions period. As far labeling, you tried your best to get me but too bad:

1 - read the whole thing, it says: "do not label each other with names and give your 'fatwas' unless you have sufficient Islamic evidence(s) to backup your claims". We got enough evidence to against you and you are declared kafir by whole Muslim ummah

2 - The rule actually is applicable only to people within Sunnah, meaning the Ahlus Sunnah on this board are not allowed to give fatawa labels against each other UNLESS they have some evidence for it. The outright kaffirs like yourself or murtad like many hadith rejectors and modernists have nothing to do with this.

Again, the rules are to be understood within the context of other rules and the mission statement of the website.

allhamdulillah, thank you for the reminder.

I did not even start any debate with you and you're already passing out your opinions about me?

Whether or not I am an ahmadi has got nothing to do with what i said above, and you do not have the right to call my opinion as propagating falsehood.

You will not allow me to have debate since every time i will write something, you will start saying im propagating falsehood.. anyhow, but whoever you are on gupshup, you must know me very well there.. why do you not have debates with me there?

I have NOT brought up my ahmadiyya beliefs yet. Infact, its probably my 3rd post and you are already accusing me of propagating 'falsehood'. Such is the mission of this site. You do not have the right to call anyone calling themselves Muslims as Non-Muslims as the eemaan is only to be judged by Allah and not a whole Muslim ummah..

Stay in your mindset and do not ever think neutrally. Keep going.. I am not replying to you any further. I rest my case.

[salman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I did not even start any debate with you and you're already passing out your opinions about me?

actually, the whole Islam is passing its opinion on you and I was simply stating it

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

Whether or not I am an ahmadi has got nothing to do with what i said above

it has everything to do with you said because you people were the first ones who came up with that heretical idea.

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

and you do not have the right to call my opinion as propagating falsehood.

lol, you want me to speak and respect your opinion but then you tell me that I do not have the right to do state my opinion. What is up with this double standard?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

You will not allow me to have debate since every time i will write something, you will start saying im propagating falsehood..

we allow debates to a certain extent and give other people chance to explain themselves to clarify Islam to them; however, we do not allow useless on going debates. So make sure that you do the former and not the latter.

Also, please state your intention: what are you here? Learning or debating?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I have NOT brought up my ahmadiyya beliefs yet. Infact, its probably my 3rd post and you are already accusing me of propagating 'falsehood'. Such is the mission of this site.

lol, this is a white lie because you already stated in your very first post that Isa (alayahi as-salam) is dead: an opinion which is not found in 13 centuires of Islamic history. In fact, it were the Jews who first propagated it and Allah revealed the ayaat to refute them but then you twist them around to suite your heretical view. You say it is not falsehood, show me that Ahlus Sunnah hold onto this belief because anything contradicting Ahlus Sunnah is defined as falsehood on this forum because contradicting Ahlus Sunnah means contradicting Islam.

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

You do not have the right to call anyone calling themselves Muslims as Non-Muslims as the eemaan is only to be judged by Allah and not a whole Muslim ummah

you need to spend sometime studying this aqeedah issue. Allah Ta'ala has already laid out His Rules and Commands. A Muslim is judged by his speech and actions. Someone is not a Muslim if his speech and actions are not in accordance with Islam and violating those Islamic laws take him out of Islam. You people clearly fall into this because you propagate creed which is not found in shareeah.

As far Allah judging then that is applied to those who are Muslims, in real sense and not self proclaimed Muslims, and they fall into mistakes and such or if their intention is not clear.

By your logic, even if a kaffir calls himself a Muslim cannot be labeled as kaffir. I wonder who agrees with you on this one!?

Originally Posted by Mr.Popat

I am not replying to you any further. I rest my case.

good for you

[Mr.Popat]

Originally Posted by salman

actually, the whole Islam is passing its opinion on you and I was simply stating it

Which islam ? the Islam of Pakistan or the religion of Allah?

Originally Posted by salman

it has everything to do with you said because you people were the first ones who came up with that heretical idea.

Yes we were the first ones to come up with this idea but can you actually prove if its contradicting Islam? Jesus brought a new book for Jews, why were jews not right for the past so many centuries?.. You people are so much in to your own ideology that you refuse to see what others believe and declare anyone not saying yes yes to your mullahs are declared non-muslims. Believing something for so long does not make something as truth.

Originally Posted by salman

lol, you want me to speak and respect your opinion but then you tell me that I do not have the right to do state my opinion. What is up with this double standard?

Yes, by all means give your opinion as i will respect it as i hope you'll respect mine.. but the very first reply of yours to me was to change my 'way of life' to something other than Muslim.. you are free to call me by whatever name you want, but forcing me to act your way is not appropriate and i hope you will avoid doing that in the future.

Originally Posted by salman

we allow debates to a certain extent and give other people chance to explain themselves to clarify Islam to them; however, we do not allow useless on going debates. So make sure that you do the former and not the latter.

I am not here to have 'useless' on going debates as i will gain nothing out of it, neither will anyone else for that matter. My mere concern is to learn why you believe what you believe.. my intention is to learn from knowledgeable people here about Islam, the Islam which is actually the Religion of Allah, and not scholar-made. My intention is to learn, and where i find something contradicting Quran and ahadith, i will definitely speak up and have debate with them ' to an extent '.

Originally Posted by salman

lol, this is a white lie because you already stated in your very first post that Isa (alayahi as-salam) is dead: an opinion which is not found in 13 centuires of Islamic history. In fact, it were the Jews who first propagated it and Allah revealed the ayaat to refute them but then you twist them around to suite your heretical view. You say it is not falsehood, show me that Ahlus Sunnah hold onto this belief because anything contradicting Ahlus Sunnah is defined as falsehood on this forum because contradicting Ahlus Sunnah means contradicting Islam.

is believing something false for 13 centuries something to be proud of ?? You kept saying we brought new ideas and thus not be considered Muslims.. even all of your scholars combined together will not be able to produce a single definition of Muslim. I talk based on Quran which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad PBUH 1400years ago.. thus claiming that Ahmadis brought something which wasnt there is a lie and nothing else. Quran for me and you is the same, the interpretation you do contradict other parts of Quran.

Originally Posted by salman

you need to spend sometime studying this aqeedah issue. Allah Ta'ala has already laid out His Rules and Commands. A Muslim is judged by his speech and actions. Someone is not a Muslim if his speech and actions are not in accordance with Islam and violating those Islamic laws take him out of Islam. You people clearly fall into this because you propagate creed which is not found in shareeah.

Saying something is easy but acting upon it is very hard, isnt it? why is the double standard with you when you say Muslims are judged by his speech and actions. Thus far, i have not uttered a single thing against you (i.e: calling you kaafir for calling a muslim kaafir etc ).. and you are here telling me how Allah judges His creation..leave that to Allah and stop giving your useless fatwas against me. By your logic,you should be out of Islam too for calling a Muslim a kafir.. Islam is not owned by you people. I do have some different opinions regarding your beliefs but that my no means make me out of Islam.

Originally Posted by salman

As far Allah judging then that is applied to those who are Muslims, in real sense and not self proclaimed Muslims, and they fall into mistakes and such or if their intention is not clear.

these are the mere assumptions that you make without the evidence. Quote me a single hadith in which Hazrat Muhammad PBUH declared anyone kaafir despite him calling himself Muslim.

Originally Posted by salman

By your logic, even if a kaffir calls himself a Muslim cannot be labeled as kaffir. I wonder who agrees with you on this one!?

Strangely, if not the so called Muslim Ummah, Prophet Muhammad PBUH sure does agree with this logic. Remember the time when Hazrat Umar Farooq (ra) killed a person despite saying kalima taiyyaba, and when this instance was presented to holy prophet PBUH , He SAW was so angry and asked why he killed him, reply from Umar (ra) was that He recited kalima because of the fear of being killed.. Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa SAW said ... have you ripped his chest and saw his heart ? Learn Quran and hadith and then we can have productive discussions.

Originally Posted by salman

good for you

sorry but you may be senior in this site , but seniority should be showed by your knowledge, and not forcing me to follow the site's rules.. sorry, had to reply you again.. as you kept repeating the same thing over and over.. ( 13 centuries beliefs etc ).

[salman]

^if you will not follow the rules then you will be banned, it is as simple as that. You can troll the forum as much as you want