> Should allegorical verse of the Qur'aan be studied?

[Tema]

Is it precise to explain that Allah is above His creation using the example that Allah is separate from time and space, using the big bang as the example?

The reason I doubt is because there is a verse that says only Allah knows the true meaning of the allegorical veses from the Qur'aan, if I am not mistaken?

All these sites such as Miracles of the Qur'aan by Harum Yahya use verses saying "this is the black hole". Are we sure that is right?

Are the people of knowledge permitted to study these verses in that way?

JazzakAllahu Khayr.

[Tema]

You all shouldn't hide your knowledge from me!!! Haraamis....

[salman]

sabroun ukhti

Originally Posted by Unknown

Is it precise to explain that Allah is above His creation using the example that Allah is separate from time and space, using the big bang as the example?

First, there is actually an image for . You can find this when you click on link "More" (found below the smilie images).

Secondly, there is no need to bring big bang into this picture. The Qur'an, ahadith and understanding of the Salaf tell us that Allah is above and separate from His creation and that is more than enough for us. In fact, this is also found in the fitrah of every human being.

Thirdly, how would you go about explaining that Allah is separate from His creation using big bang?

Originally Posted by Unknown

The reason I doubt is because there is a verse that says only Allah knows the true meaning of the allegorical veses from the Qur'aan, if I am not mistaken?

yes, there is but this argument is from people of bida'a and not us. The Salaf has said that the meaning of the ayaat pertaining Allah's Attributes is known but the kayf (howness) is unknown. Have you heard or read the famous statement of Imam Malik (rahimahullah) in this regard? So the argument to reject Sifaat of Allah because they are NOT from muhkmaat is bida'a.

Originally Posted by Unknown

All these sites such as Miracles of the Qur'aan by Harum Yahya use verses saying "this is the black hole". Are we sure that is right?

Harun Yahay can utter whatever he wants but we don't take our religion from a mushrik. Other than the fact that he believes in wahdtul wajooud (pantheism), he has become a fanatic to turn every ayah into a scientific miracle. If you browse the atheism section in our forum, you will find that akh Abdul Fatteh has highlighted some of those problems.

Originally Posted by Unknown

Are the people of knowledge permitted to study these verses in that way?

yes because their meaning is known to us.

Originally Posted by Unknown

JazzakAllahu Khayr.

barakAllahu feekee

and Allah knows best

[Tema]

Thirdly, how would you go about explaining that Allah is separate from His creation using big bang?

That before the big bang there was no time or space. After the big bang happened, the time and space formed, and Allah is above time and space.
I thought this says

yes, there is but this argument is from people of bida'a and not us.

Which one?

The Salaf has said that the meaning of the ayaat pertaining Allah's Attributes is known but the kayf (howness) is unknown.

That is what I ment. There are two broad category of ayats: Ones with clear meanings (Allah's commands, stories of the prophets,pbut, I don't know which else). Others wich are allegorical speaking about Allah's creation.

I didn't know Harun Yahya was one of the innovators (Allahu Al'am). Even Dr. Zaik Naik interpreates the six days as 'period'.

Six Days?

The Qur'an states that "Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days" (7:54). While on the surface this might seem similar to the account related in the Bible, there are some important distinctions.

The verses that mention "six days" use the Arabic word "youm" (day). This word appears several other times in the Qur'an, each denoting a different measurement of time. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning" (22:47). The word "youm" is thus understood, within the Qur'an, to be a long period of time -- an era or eon. Therefore, Muslims interpret the description of a "six day" creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period.


http://islam.about.com/od/creation/a/creation.htm

A more appropriate translation is actaully "period" than the word "day" - Dr. Zakir Naik

After I spoted that aya knowing that these verses are allegorical I thought to myself that what I asked. And you are saying that they shouldn't be interpretead. So all these speculations about these verses shouldn't be. Wow.

yes, there is but this argument is from people of bida'a and not us. The Salaf has said that the meaning of the ayaat pertaining Allah's Attributes is known but the kayf (howness) is unknown. Have you heard or read the famous statement of Imam Malik (rahimahullah) in this regard? So the argument to reject Sifaat of Allah because they are from muhkmaat is bida'a.

Yep, clear cut kufr.

Harun Yahay can utter whatever he wants but we don't take our religion from a mushrik. Other than the fact that he believes in wahdtul wajooud (pantheism), he has become a fanatic to turn every ayah into a scientific miracle. If you browse the atheism section in our forum, you will find that akh Abdul Fatteh has highlighted some of those problems

It is amazing that so many Muslims are uninformed of this.

JazzakAllahu Khayr

Than I shouldn't use the big bang as the example.

[salman]

SubhaanAllah! I made such a big mistake by mixing up muhkamaat with mutashabih and no one corrected me

I am going to edit my previous post; sorry for the confusion ukhti

Originally Posted by Unknown

That before the big bang there was no time or space. After the big bang happened, the time and space formed, and Allah is above time and space.

ukhti, time and space are only two out of many creations of Allah Azza wa Jal. So this argument really doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Unknown

Which one?

the argument that ayaat pertaining to attributes of Allah (i.e., He rose over His throne, He has two Hands, etc.) are from mutashabih and only Allah knows their true meaning or the argument that we should interpret them allegorically.

Both of these arguments from people of bida'a: ta'weel and tafweedh.

Originally Posted by Unknown

That is what I ment. There are two broad category of ayats: Ones with clear meanings (Allah's commands, stories of the prophets,pbut, I don't know which else). Others wich are allegorical speaking about Allah's creation.

Firstly, sister, the Qur'an is understood upon its dhahir (apparent) meaning. So something can be interpreted as allegorically or literally depending on the dhahir meaning given by the context and the language.

Secondly, you are mixing up two things here: ta'weel is different than tafweedh. Ta'weel is to give a meaning other than the apparent meaning. Tafweedh is to say we don't know its meaning; only Allah knows the true meaning. When you say fullan ayah should be interpreted allegorically then you are talking about ta'weel. But when you say fullan ayah is mutashabih then we are talking about tafweedh.

Originally Posted by Unknown

I didn't know Harun Yahya was one of the innovators (Allahu Al'am). Even Dr. Zaik Naik interpreates the six days as 'period'.

not everything which Harun Yahya says is wrong; however, we don't take from him when there are people from Ahlus Sunnah who have explained these things. And there is nothing wrong with what brother Zakir Naik said. The Arabic word youm means period and not days. And there is nothing wrong with interpreting these ayaat because their apparent meaning is known and they are not from mutashabih.

Originally Posted by Unknown

After I spoted that aya knowing that these verses are allegorical I thought to myself that what I asked.

which ayaat are you talking about and how are they allegorical?

Originally Posted by Unknown

And you are saying that they shouldn't be interpretead. So all these speculations about these verses shouldn't be. Wow.

No, that's not what I meant. It was my fault because i mixed up mutashabih with muhkamaat. So let's clear up things here, insha'Allah:

1 - Ayah # 7 of Sural Al-Imran says that there are muhkmaat ayaat and there are mutashabih ayaat. Scholars have differed whether the meaning of mutashabih is only known to Allah or could also be known to us.

2 - Ayaat pertaining to Attributes of Allah are from muhkamaat; they are NOT from mutashabih. In other words, we know their meaning we just don't know the kayf (howness).

WaAllahu A'lam