> View of Ahlus Sunnah about imam abu hanifa?

[salman]

Originally Posted by optimist

Salam,

I am aslo only asking "to ignore all the negatives ones" (like the latter scholars) since those statements are made prejudically as you said "they heard about bad things (lies falsely attributed to him) about him they made statements like these." We are in the same boat.

allhamdulillah; :), though I would not use the word prejudice.

Originally Posted by optimist

Those statements are not authentic and made under false understanding.

not exactly - they are authentic from historical perspective but they do not have much weight anymore since they were based on false understanding and personal ijtihad of the scholars

Originally Posted by optimist

These statements should not be part of genuine hadiths and part of Islam. The issue is simple.

well, when you say Islam what do you mean by that? Do you mean the Shari'ah? Or do you mean the Islamic history? If the former then they are not part of the Shari'ah. If you mean the latter then you are wrong, they are authentic historical accounts. So why should they not be part of our history and considered genuine statements.

The difference lies on the implication of these statements and not the authenticity (being correct/accurate historical accounts); meaning the scholars did really say that.

Originally Posted by optimist

The issue is also simple. The real sufyan Al Thawri who said "We were in front of Abu Hanifa like small birds in front of the falcon," would not make any such derogatory remark like "no body born in Islam worse than Abu Hanifa". There is also possibility that it is fabricated by some people and attributed to Sufyan to give more authenticity for the statement.

well, the Imam did really say that about Abu Hanifa (rahimahullah) due to reasons, which we already discussed and agreed upon. Some of these could be weak or taken out of context or twisted around by one of the extremist group to serve their agenda but the fact is that quite of few them do really exist.

Originally Posted by optimist

You already know that there were many fabricated sayings in circulation. The people who fabricated hadiths used to attribute their fabrication to noble sahabas in order to give more authenticity and popularity for such sayings. This is an admitted fact.

whether something is authentic or not should be based upon evidences and the science of hadith. The analysis of historical accounts and their authenticity is not based upon our personal reasoning, which is based on our whims/desires, limited intellect and lack of knowledge. This is something which you have failed to grasp and digest akhee and it is a very dangerous matter.

@sunnikid

akhee, there is no benefit in continuing this discussion further; the people without ill hearts can understand the context and implication of these statements very well. Therefore, I am going to close it. You can discuss the rest at Multaqa (I saw you opened a thread there).

PS: If anyone wants to add something useful or want to continue the discussion pm me and I will open it, insha'Allah