> Muslim Women win in West

[Assad]

Fighting for Muslim women's rights
Some of the world's leading Islamic feminists have been gathered in Barcelona for the third International Congress on Islamic Feminism, to discuss the issues women face in the Muslim world.
Some of the women taking part in the conference explained the problems in their home countries, and where they hoped to make progress. ASMA BARLAS, Author, Pakistan
Religions always come into cultures, they don't come into abstract and pure spaces. Islam came into a very patriarchal, tribal and misogynistic culture. One of the deepest damages to Islam has been its reduction to "Arabisation".

I'm not going to say that the Arabs are particularly misogynistic in a way that nobody else is, but I do think there are very particular traits and attitudes towards women that have crept into Islam.
I have a friend who has been studying the interface between what he calls the Persian models and the Arabist models of Islam in the subcontinent and surprise, surprise: the Arabist models are misogynistic, authoritarian, unitarian and the Persian models are much more plural and tolerant.
This is a fight on two fronts - on the one hand we are struggling against the kinds of oppression dominant in Muslim patriarch societies and, on the other, Western perceptions of Islam as necessarily monolithic, and confusing the ideals of Islam with the reality of Muslim lives.
If we read the Koran as a totality rather than pulling out random verses or half a line, that opens all kinds of possibilities for sexual equality.
RAFIAH AL-TALEI, journalist, Oman
Oman is relatively liberal, women are free to choose what to wear, and can choose their jobs and education. And the law does not require us to wear any particular form of clothing. But there are strong social and cultural factors - coming from the fact that we are in Arabia - that limit women.


Sharia is fair, but it is the wrong interpretations that are the problem. Male judges often don't understand the principal goals of sharia


As a journalist, it has not been hard for me to work among men, but it has been hard for some of my colleagues whose families told them this was not "appropriate" work for them.
The biggest difficulties are the social and cultural factors, and some aspects of law. For example, women who marry a foreigner cannot pass on their nationality to their children, whereas men in that situation can.
Religion is not an issue in our struggle, although there are problems with family law about divorce and marriage status. Omani laws are based on sharia law. Sharia is fair, but it is the wrong interpretations that are the problem. Male judges often don't understand the principal goals of sharia. We feel the law is fair, but ends up being unfair for women because of how judges interpret it.
Cultural and social factors often get mixed up with religion. Educated women can be more empowered and separate the two, but many don't dare challenge the conventions.


NORANI OTHMAN, Scholar-activist, Malaysia I don't think it is any more difficult to be an Islamic feminist than a non-Muslim, or secular feminist.

Feminists in general have to face up to political and cultural obstacles, to achieve our objectives of women's rights. Even Western feminists have had a similar history - having to engage with certain religious beliefs not conducive to gender equality.
Perhaps the only distinctive difference peculiar to Muslim feminists is that we are caught in the cross-currents of modernisation and a changing society, due to a modern economy on the one hand and the global resurgence of political Islam on the other.
Political Islam wants to impose a world view about the gender order that is not consistent with the realities and the lived experiences of Muslim men and women in contemporary society.



Our detractors would hurl empty accusations at us - calling us Western, secular or anti-Islamic

There is a difference between South East Asian Muslim countries and the ones in the Middle East - culturally we are less patriarchal, we can always respond to our detractors by pointing out we don't have the cultural practices that they do.
Our detractors would hurl empty accusations at us - calling us Western, secular or anti-Islamic.
Our arguments are rooted within Islam - we want renewal and transformation within the Islamic framework. They don't like that.
We have a holistic approach, seeking gender equality within the Islamic framework, supported by constitutional guarantees. We see that these are not inconsistent with the message of the Koran, particularly during its formative stages. We have to understand the history and cultural context and extract the principle that will be applicable in modern times.
SITI MUSDAH MULIA, Academic, Indonesia
In my experience, I find that it is very difficult to make Indonesian Muslim women aware that politics is their right.
In Indonesian society, politics is always conceived as cruel and dirty, so not many women want to get involved, they think it is just for men.



According to the [radicalist] Islamic understanding, women should be confined to the home, and the domestic sphere alone

We try to make women understand that politics is one of our duties and rights and they can become involved without losing their femininity. Personally, I'm non-partisan, I'm not linked to one political party because, in Indonesia, the political parties often discriminate against women.
I struggle from outside the political sphere to make it women-friendly, to reform political parties and the political system.
One day, I hope to be involved more directly, if the system becomes more women-friendly. We have passed a law about affirmative action and achieving 30% female representation, but we won't see if it is implemented until after 2009 elections. We are waiting.
In Indonesia, some groups support us, but some radical groups oppose what we are trying to achieve. They accuse me, accuse feminist Muslims, of being infidels, of wanting to damage Islamic affairs.
According to their Islamic understanding, women should be confined to the home, and the domestic sphere alone.
AMINA WADUD, Academic, United States
There are many more conversations going on today between different interpretations of Islam. Some interpretations are very narrow, some are more broad, principled, ethically-based.
Unless we have sufficient knowledge about Islam, we cannot bring about reform of Islam. I am not talking about re-interpretation, I am talking more about gender-inclusive interpretation.

We have a lot of information about men's interpretations of Islam, and of what it means to be a woman in Islam. We don't have equal amounts of information about what women say it means to be a good woman in Islam.

Now it's time for men to be active listeners, and after listening, to be active participants in bringing about reform.
There is a tendency to say that it is Islam that prohibits women from driving a car, for example, when women drive cars all over the world except in one country. So then you know it is not Islam. Islam has much more flexibility, but patriarchy tends to have the same objective, and that is to limit our ability to understand ourselves as Muslims.
I have always defined myself as pro-faith and pro-feminism.
I do not wish to sacrifice my faith for anybody's conception of feminism, nor do I sacrifice the struggle and actions for full equality of women, Muslim and non-Muslim women, for any religion. Islamic feminism is not an either/or, you can be Muslim and feminist and strive for women's rights and not call yourself a feminist.
FATIMA KHAFAJI, Consultant, Egypt
In Egypt, Islamic feminism is a way for women activists to reach a large number of ordinary women in the villages and in urban low-income areas, using a framework of Islam. So there would be a reference to Islam when talking about women's rights. Experience has shown that that is an easy way to get women to accept what you're saying.
Not many women get information about women's rights easily, so you have to counter what has been fed to them, to both men and women, from the strict, conventional, religious people who have more access to women.
They have their own idea of women's rights in Islam - that is, patriarchal, still limiting opportunities for women. But women have been receiving this concept for ages, through the radio, TV, mosques, so the challenge is how to give them another view, of enlightened Islam, that talks about changing gender roles. It's not an easy job.





Sexual harassment is happening because men think the control of women's bodies is a matter for them

Historically, in Egypt in the feminist movement, there have been both Muslim and Christian women. It has never been a problem. Unfortunately nowadays, it has become a problem. Religious discrimination has been dividing people very much. We have to think carefully about how to supersede the differences.
With family law, we're aiming to change the philosophy of the law itself. Traditional family law puts women down. I can see this whole notion of "women do not have control over their bodies" in so many laws, in the penal code and family law. For example, sexual harassment is happening because men think the control of women's bodies is a matter for them. Even the decision whether to have children is the decision of men. This whole notion has to be changed in a dramatic way if we are really going to talk about women's rights in Egypt.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...th/7689897.stm

Published: 2008/10/27 17:24:01 GMT

? BBC MMVIII

[salman]

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

Will i be surprised to read or hear that many of these lay women would represent the distorted version of the Islamic teachings? I don't think so; lay people should know where they stand and just play their role.

[Assad]

^Walikum Assalam,

Sorry I didnt get you... are you trying to say that these women are presenting a wrong version of Islam?

[salman]

^no bro, I said if they do so, I won't be surprised.

The article says "Some of the world's leading Islamic feminists"; well, according to who they are world's leading women? Read it carefully akhi;

RAFIAH AL-TALEI, journalist, Oman
Oman is relatively liberal, women are free to choose what to wear, and can choose their jobs and education. And the law does not require us to wear any particular form of clothing. But there are strong social and cultural factors - coming from the fact that we are in Arabia - that limit women.

Which Shari'ah is this? at least not the one i know of.

we can go on but there's no point of it.

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum,
I just wanted to point out brother,
there is a difference between what muslims should do, and between what the state should force muslims to do.
In this particular case I don't have enough knowledge on shariah to say whether or not the state should force woman to wear hijab. But you seem to assume that it is the state's responsibility and obligation, so could you perhaps provide me some hadeeth where you base this upon?

[Assad]

Walikum Assalam

Abdul Fattah has raised a good question .. As far as I understand Its obligation of the State to enforce the Ideal social practices which unfortunately in Todays Islamic States is not done or is dont in an absolutely inappropriate away .. I have seen some recent scandals related to that but I dont wish to raise the issue here.

The vision of an Islamic state and the purpose of its political authority is to implement the divine law. Thus, the ideal Islamic state is a community governed by the Law revealed by God. This does not entail that such a state is necessarily a theocracy under direct rule of the learned men of religion, nor is it an autocracy that vests absolute power in the ruler. The function of the Islamic state is to provide security and order so that Muslims can carry out both their religious and worldly duties. The Caliphis the guardian of faith and the community. His role is not so much checked by the ulama (religious scholars), but enhanced by them because they provide him religious and legal counsel. He also appoints judges who resolve disputes in accordance with Islamic Law. There is a certain level of flexibility in regards to the system of governance and its establishment in Islam, however, religion must be implemented fully into state and society.

You can read the Islamic political idelogy here : Islam Religion website link

[salman]

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

Selam aleykum,

Wa'alaykum As-Salam

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

I just wanted to point out brother,
there is a difference between what muslims should do, and between what the state should force muslims to do.

agreed upon but remember that Sharee'ah is Islam and Islam is Sharee'ah.

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

In this particular case I don't have enough knowledge on shariah to say whether or not the state should force woman to wear hijab.

I'm also a layman like yourself but from what I know, the 'ulama can give fatawa about this to avoid greater fitnah. If we let them wear whatever they want and walk in public, i don't see how does this make us different from countries where is no Sharee'ah.

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

But you seem to assume that it is the state's responsibility and obligation, so could you perhaps provide me some hadeeth where you base this upon?

yes, there should be some kind of sensor on what you can wear and what you can't; like we've in Saudia currently. Do you think the 'ulama based the fatwa on nothing? I don't have any Islamic text to back myself up but my point is that we can't just let people wear whatever they want. There're people who're against wearing anything at all.

Wallahu A'lam

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum

Originally Posted by islamiclife

agreed upon but remember that Sharee'ah is Islam and Islam is Sharee'ah.

No, I disagree brother. Islam is Islam and Sharee'ah is Sharee'ah. They are two different things referring to two different concepts. Sharee'ah is part of ISlam, but Islam is more then only Sharee'ah.So your reply is neither here nor there.

I'm also a layman like yourself but from what I know, the 'ulama can give fatawa about this to avoid greater fitnah. If we let them wear whatever they want and walk in public, i don't see how does this make us different from countries where is no Sharee'ah.

Yes but these are very controversial issues. Except for the few cases where we can know from hadeeth or by example fo the caliphs what the correct way to handle a situation is, there we have certainty. But for all the other cases the Scholars wil have to make ijtihad and see for each case which has the heaviest weight, the benefit for society, or the restrictions on a personal level. And that is a very controversial call. So for us to go and say that this country or that country is out of order for not enforcing this or that rule is a very dangerous game that I wouldn't want to play.

yes, there should be some kind of sensor on what you can wear and what you can't; like we've in Saudia currently. Do you think the 'ulama based the fatwa on nothing?

Either they based it on a firm hadeeth, or naration of the caliphs, in which case you are right, and other countries should enforce this law to. Or they have based it on ijtihad, in wish case you are wrong and you cannot go claiming around that other countries are wrong.

[salman]

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

Selam aleykum

No, I disagree brother. Islam is Islam and Sharee'ah is Sharee'ah. They are two different things referring to two different concepts. Sharee'ah is part of ISlam, but Islam is more then only Sharee'ah.So your reply is neither here nor there.

Wa'alaykum As-Salam,

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem

akhi kareem this is a great misconception among the Muslims and non-Muslims. Sharee'ah whether in general meaning or specific meaning is nothing but Islam. Shaykh Haitham Haddad has covered this topic in his few lectures: The Use and Abuse of Maqasid (Aims) Shari'ah

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

Yes but these are very controversial issues. Except for the few cases where we can know from hadeeth or by example fo the caliphs what the correct way to handle a situation is, there we have certainty. But for all the other cases the Scholars wil have to make ijtihad and see for each case which has the heaviest weight, the benefit for society, or the restrictions on a personal level. And that is a very controversial call. So for us to go and say that this country or that country is out of order for not enforcing this or that rule is a very dangerous game that I wouldn't want to play.

I don't think I meant something else; if i did i take it back it could have been due to my ignorance.

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

Either they based it on a firm hadeeth, or naration of the caliphs, in which case you are right, and other countries should enforce this law to. Or they have based it on ijtihad, in wish case you are wrong and you cannot go claiming around that other countries are wrong.

if it is the ijtihad and it is beneficial for the other societies then they can follow it and implment it, like following one of the madahab.

Again, if i said something out of ignorance which I shouldn't have said, i take it back.

Wallahu A'lam

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum

akhi kareem this is a great misconception among the Muslims and non-Muslims. Sharee'ah whether in general meaning or specific meaning is nothing but Islam. Shaykh Haitham Haddad has covered this topic in his few lectures: The Use and Abuse of Maqasid (Aims) Shari'ah

Brother I disagree. The shaykh himself brought the example of a company and a department in the company. He then said that even if the department has a specific goal, the end purpose of that goal is the very same as the end goal of the company. That is true, and I agree with that part. However just because shariah and Islam have the same aim, does not mean that they are the same. Nobody would claim that this department of the company is equal to the whole company. The whole company is much more then that department alone. And so is Islam more then only shariah. And simply claiming that the two are synonyms is not the right way to handle this. He might have a good point that people should not accept one and reject another, because they do indeed come hand in hand. At it is indeed wrong for people to accept one and reject the other. However the method in which he makes this point is inaccurate.

If we want we can simply stop using all words like fiqh, shariah, iman, and so on, with a similar line of reasoning that all these things are equal to Islam. But in the end of the line, the more words you get rid of, the more difficult it will be for people to understand. These different words exist for a purpose, because they refer to a different concept. So simplifying the matter into Islam=shariah is just wrong in my opinion.
And I don't know, and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best.

If it is the ijtihad and it is beneficial for the other societies then they can follow it and implement it, like following one of the madahab.

They can, but they don't have to. Rulings by itjihad are by nature controversial. And it's perfectly plausible that a different scholar reaches a different opinion. No man has some sort of special scale on which he can balance off the benefits/downsides here. If such is the case that they did indeed base this on itjihad, and if it is the case that the countries who do not follow this rule based themself on itjihad of another scolar, then the only way to "solve" this matter is to look at the arguments of both rulings, and then compare them and see which one is strongest.

Btw, brother, I hope you don't feel bad because I'm stressing so much over a single quote. I don't have anything against you personal. May Allah subhana wa ta'ala forgive me if I crossed the line.