> Muslim Response Safiyya Bint Huyayy - the Jewish wife of Prophet Muhammad

[TheBoxer]

As a side note:

By the time Surah 33 (Al-Ahzab) was being revealed, Muhammad already had five wives (Aisha, Hafsa, Zaynab b. Khuza., and Umm Salamah). Al-Ahzab was revealed around the time of Muhammad's marriage to Zaynab b. Jahsh.

The Quran says nothing about permitting Muhammad more than four wives, and it says nothing permitting him to marry a Jewish widow (especially a free one) without observing the 'iddah. Saffiya was not a "believing woman who offered herself to him," nor was she a right hand possession because he had freed her.

~TheBoxer

[salman]

Should I visit your home now and question your dad and his motives for marrying your mother or maybe his ex-girlfriends? How about questioning the motives of your boyfriend of husband if you have any? So if a man has a beautiful wife then it means he must have married her because of her beauty?

Let us suppose we agree with you, for sake of argument, that Prophet (sal-allahu alahyhi wa sallam) did marry her for her beauty. So what? What do we do after learning this? The question is what do you want to prove? What is the point of such questions or knowledge? How come you do not question the motives of previous Prophets (peace be upon them) for having so many wives? You are dancing around the issue and not answering the question!

[TheBoxer]

salman,
　
You wrote:

Should I visit your home now and question your dad and his motives for marrying your mother or maybe his ex-girlfriends? How about questioning the motives of your boyfriend of husband if you have any? So if a man has a beautiful wife then it means he must have married her because of her beauty?

My father does not claim to be a prophet of God, and he does not claim to be the best example for humanity. I know why my significant other chose me--He was attracted to me and he fell in love with me. We spent frequent amounts of time together so that we were able to know one another. But this is side-tracking.
　
If a man has a beautiful wife, does it mean he must have married her because of her beauty? No. But if a man takes a beautiful non-Muslim captive that belongs to another and marries her within a few days, then I think the ONLY reason we have left is lust. I have provided evidence that the only reason he married her was because of her beauty. You have provided ZERO evidence to the contrary.
　

Let us suppose we agree with you, for sake of argument, that Prophet (sal-allahu alahyhi wa sallam) did marry her for her beauty. So what? What do we do after learning this? The question is what do you want to prove? What is the point of such questions or knowledge? How come you do not question the motives of previous Prophets (peace be upon them) for having so many wives? You are dancing around the issue and not answering the question!

Well, Muhammad said that if a man married a woman for her beauty and not because of her religious piety, then he would be a loser.
　
Does that mean he was a loser?
　
And the definition of "prophet" in Islam differs from the definition of "prophet" in Judaism and Christianity. I do not know of any divinely ordained Prophets (like Moses) who had multiple wives. Abraham was not a Prophet. Jacob was not a Prophet. King David and King Solomon were not Prophets...they were kings who relied upon Prophets like Nathan.

And even if they were prophets, never did God say that they are the best examples of humanity.

~TheBoxer

[salman]

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

My father does not claim to be a prophet of God, and he does not claim to be the best example for humanity. I know why my significant other chose me--He was attracted to me and he fell in love with me. We spent frequent amounts of time together so that we were able to know one another. But this is side-tracking.

did I say anything about being a prophet or best man? I am simply asking would you like someone to question the motives of your father or your husband? Why did he fell in love with you? I guess most likely because you were physically attractive to him.
　

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

But if a man takes a beautiful non-Muslim captive that belongs to another and marries her within a few days, then I think the ONLY reason we have left is lust. I have provided evidence that the only reason he married her was because of her beauty. You have provided ZERO evidence to the contrary.

1 - she was a widow. So widows belong to someone, right?
2 - I do not need to present any evidence to likes of you because you have already made up your mind. 　

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

Well, Muhammad said that if a man married a woman for her beauty and not because of her religious piety, then he would be a loser.
　
Does that mean he was a loser?

quote me the Arabic text with translation please.
　

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

And even if they were prophets, never did God say that they are the best examples of humanity.

so Prophets are not better than other people?

[TheBoxer]

salman,

You wrote:

1 - she was a widow. So widows belong to someone, right?
2 - I do not need to present any evidence to likes of you because you have already made up your mind.

1. She was made a widow when her husband Kinana was killed by the Muslims. She was taken captive and given as war booty to Dihya. When Muhammad heard about her, he went and took her for himself from Dihya.

2. It's not for me that you should be presenting evidence. You should be presenting evidence for the Muslims who come here looking to refute the claims of non-Muslims about Safiya. So far, you haven't provided them with anything.

quote me the Arabic text with translation please.

The Hadith is Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 27.
　
I'll post what it says in English. You will have to refer to my source to read the Arabic.

1835. Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four (things), i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should take possession of (marry) the religious women (otherwise) you will be a loser." [7:27-O.B]

SOURCE:
Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari: Arabic-English, Translated by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Islamic University, Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah, 1994, pg 889

This forum does not allow me to post links, so you'll have to find the book yourself on Google books.

so Prophets are not better than other people?

Better? What a weird choice of words. No, they're not necessarily "better." They're just special because God chose to use them to deliver a message. However, if someone claimed to be a prophet but was living an unholy life, then we have to ask ourselves if he or she was really a prophet because someone who truly loves God is going to abstain from sin as much as possible, and if he or she did sin then they were punished by God. Sexual immorality and prophethood do not go hand-in-hand.

~TheBoxer

[salman]

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

1. She was made a widow when her husband Kinana was killed by the Muslims. She was taken captive and given as war booty to Dihya. When Muhammad heard about her, he went and took her for himself from Dihya.

You know it would be much simpler if you just layout the allegation instead of paying hide & seek games. Just like this: "Mulims killed innocent jews and then Muhammad learned about beautiful princess of jews and forcefully took her from his companion because he was struck with her beauty and forced her into marriage. Thus, his actions were unholy and sin; therefore, he is not a prophet".

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

2. It's not for me that you should be presenting evidence. You should be presenting evidence for the Muslims who come here looking to refute the claims of non-Muslims about Safiya. So far, you haven't provided them with anything.

What is there to refute? Even if we do not refute, it does not prove anything. The burden of proof in on the shoulder of the claimer and not vice versa. So far, all you have presented is your unscholaraly commentary of the half quoted text and that has not proved anything. Instead of answering the questions, you keep dancing around the issue and bring off-topic points.

We will bring the evidence to prove your nonsense when we have time to quote Arbaic text and translate it. Why are you so worried about it? Let me guess, you're worried about your humiliation.

Regarding the hadith of marrying woman, which has been narrated in both sahih, this is what it actually says:

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : ( تُنْكَحُ الْمَرْأَةُ لِأَرْبَعٍ : لِمَالِهَا ، وَلِحَسَبِهَا ، وَلِجَمَالِهَا ، وَلِدِينِهَا ، فَاظْفَرْ بِذَاتِ الدِّينِ تَرِبَتْ يَدَاكَ

I am sorry, I am blind, please show me the word loser here? The phrase "تَرِبَتْ يَدَاكَ" is connected with previous phrases "بِذَاتِ الدِّينِ"; thus, "تَرِبَتْ يَدَاكَ" is referring to marrying a religious woman. And the Arabs used these phrases to mean other than what it literally means to encourage, admire or denounce something. Hence, in the context it is understood the phrase is encouraging men to marry religious woman and not denouncing them from marrying religious ones or calling them losers for not marrying religious ones. Abu Hurayrah (radiAllahu anho) narrated from the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) who said: "A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper)"

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

This forum does not allow me to post links

huh?

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

Better? What a weird choice of words. No, they're not necessarily "better." They're just special because God chose to use them to deliver a message. However, if someone claimed to be a prophet but was living an unholy life, then we have to ask ourselves if he or she was really a prophet because someone who truly loves God is going to abstain from sin as much as possible, and if he or she did sin then they were punished by God. Sexual immorality and prophethood do not go hand-in-hand.

yeh that sure makes a whole lot of sense. Let me summarize it in 2 sentence:
1 - Prophets are not necessarily better but they are special. No one buys this theological garbage and contradictions except the god-nongod believers.
2 - Marrying beautiful woman or having a beautiful wife is a sexual immorality. Since this is sin so sinner is living an unholy life and prophets cannot be living unholy life; therefore, you deny the truth.

You got a wonderful logic and analysis going on there. I am sure you got revelation from holy ghost that marrying beautiful woman due to their beauty is an immoral sin. However, in all of your posts you have terribly failed to prove the premise and the conclusion.

The thing is what more can we expect from people who are brought up in gutter environment and are theological bankrupt. According to these, secularists Christians, there is nothing wrong in kissing your finance or touching her or praying to jesus but there is sudden a talk about morality if Prophet Muhammad (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) allegedly married our mother (radiAllahu anha) only due to her beauty. What a load of trash!

I am going to close this thread as further discussion with this kaffirah is useless and I will post the search material once I get sometime on my hand, insha'Allah