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Does Qur'an Borrow/Plagiarize from Bible?

This is a discussion on Does Qur'an Borrow/Plagiarize from Bible? within the Qur'an, Hadith & Prophet Muhammad forums, part of the Anti-Islamic Refutations category; : Muslim response to common arguments raised by non-Muslims about Qur'an plagiarizing and borrowing from Bible. We'll mainly address the Christians. The following has taken ...


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  #1  
Old 04-17-2009, 09:51 AM
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Default Does Qur'an Borrow/Plagiarize from Bible?

:

Muslim response to common arguments raised by non-Muslims about Qur'an plagiarizing and borrowing from Bible. We'll mainly address the Christians. The following has taken from islamic-awareness:
Does Similarities Imply Borrowing?

Let's start with an example. Prophet Noah (peace be upon him) was given certain commandments. So was Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) after him. If we were to see that the followers of Prophet Noah (peace be upon him) accusing of the followers of Prophet Moses (peace be upon him), how do we expect the followers of Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) to respond? We might hear a response like this:
  • The Law has come from the same source (from the one and only God),
  • Of course we would expect similar teachings and not such as God is a twin or has a daughter from eternity etc.,
  • Any differences from absolute similarities would mean correction of the message that got corrupted,
  • Any other differences would mean additional Law with the newer revelation,
  • The new revelation from the same source comes with its own proof and evidences, otherwise anyone can attempt to invent 'revelation' (while not coming from that same source - God) and mislead many thereby. If there were no proofs or evidences then how can someone verify its truthfulness and authenticity, believe in it and accept it?
We will thus see that the emphasis shifts to verifying the inherent proofs or evidences of the fresh revelation when older (or traces of the older) revelation still exists. Therefore, similarity between two revelations can even imply that the later revelation is from God.

The Dilemma & The Double Standard

Since it is the claim of the Christian missionaries that similarities imply borrowing then one can simply show the same in the Bible concerning the notion of God as depicted in the Old Testament as an aged diety, his dwelling place and heavenly court being borrowed from Ugaritic sources. The Flood narrative in Genesis and the Mesopotamian parallels are some of the most interesting parallels in the history. There are many more examples that can be shown.

Now the key question is: Are the Christian missionaries now ready to accept the conclusions of the orientalists with regards to biblical data being borrowed from ancient texts? Surely it seems unlikely. They will readily say that biblical data is derived from the same source from which earlier data was generated albeit now corrupted, and biblical data is providing true narratives that ought to be. This is what we Muslims have been saying all along! That is, the Qur'an corrects the previous texts, testifies to their truthfulness and falsifies their falsities. But this alternative theory puts them into a dilemma. Hence they are seen resorting to a double standard.

They would accept the 'one source' theory when it comes to comparing biblical data with ancient literature or traditions; but resorts back to the borrowing theory when it comes to comparing Qur'an with earlier literature or traditions. However, as we shall see, the problem lies elsewhere.

Important Questions To Ask

Furthermore, the assertion of Judeo-Christian borrowing raises a number of questions. Jamal Badawi puts forward the following six questions:
  1. Why is it in spite of the abundance of historical material on Muhammad's (peace be upon him) life, and in spite of the extensive research on his life for centuries by his severe critics, that it was not possible to discover the mysterious teacher(s) through whom Muhammad(peace be upon him) might have learned all that?
  2. It is known that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was opposed, ridiculed and persecuted for nearly 13 years by his own contemporaries. With this magnitude of severe enemies, was it not possible for them to prove to the masses that Muhammad's (peace be upon him) claim of revelation was sheer fabrication? Was it not possible for them to reveal and name the person whom they alleged to be the human source or sources of his teachings? Even some of his adversaries who had made this assertion, changed their minds later on and accused him, instead, of magic or being possessed by evil... etc.
  3. Muhammad(peace be upon him) was raised among his people and every aspect of his life was exposed to them, especially by the openness that characterises tribal life in the desert. How could the multitudes of his contemporaries, including many of his close relatives who knew him so well, how could they believe in his truthfulness if they had any doubt that he was claiming credit for ideas taught to him by some other teachers without bothering to give them credit ?
  4. What kind of teacher might have taught Muhammad(peace be upon him) a coherent and complete religion that changed the face of history? Why didn't he or they (if any) speak against the alleged student who continued learning from them, while ignoring them and claiming some other divine source for his teachings?
  5. How could many Jews and Christians amongst his contemporaries become Muslims and believe in his truthfulness if they knew he was copying from their scriptures or learning from their priests or rabbis?
  6. It is known that some of the Qur'anic revelations to Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the presence of people. The Qur'an was revealed over the span of 23 years, where then that was mysterious, perhaps invisible teacher of Muhammad (peace be upon him)? How could he have hidden himself for so long? Or how could Muhammad(peace be upon him) who was constantly surrounded by companions, how was he able to make frequent secret visits to that mysterious teacher or teachers for 23 years without even being caught once?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverLJ View Post
In contrast consider all you have is one man's word, NOTHING else and a book that mostly contains stories that can ALL be found elsewhere in other texts long before Mohammed time. So is God a plagiarist or was it someone else?
this is nothing more than a straw man.

1 - Did God plagiaries when he inspired the NT authors to write similar things, which were previously found in the OT? Even if we agree with your argument, so what! We believed that Allah Ta'ala revealed Torah and Injeel. Hence, why wouldn't there be similarities in the message of God?

2 - Please stop contradicting yourself: does Qur'an has new laws, which are not found in the Bible, or it doesn't have these new laws? Let me remind you about your complaint regarding Music, not very old! Where does the Qur'an say that Jesus was son of God, he died on the cross and he was an entity in the concept of triune god? You Evangelic always complain about how stories in the Qur'an differ with stories in the Bible and now you're saying all of those can be found in the Bible. Can you please tell which one is true: same stories as in the Bible or not same stories? Can you prove that all of those stories are exactly the same as in the

3 - Tell me, you say we've everything by one man's words, but you've taken things from unknown people; so, what is the point of your argument?
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salman View Post
1 - Did God plagiaries when he inspired the NT authors to write similar things, which were previously found in the OT? Even if we agree with your argument, so what! We believed that Allah Ta'ala revealed Torah and Injeel. Hence, why wouldn't there be similarties in the message of God?

2 - Please stop contradicting yourself: does Qur'an has new laws, which are not found in the Bible, or it doesn't have these new laws? Let me remind you about your complaint regarding Music, not very old! Where does the Qur'an say that Jesus was son of God, he died on the cross and he was an entity in the concept of triune god? You avanglaics always compain about how stories in the Qur'an differ with stories in the Bible and now you're saying all of those can be found in the Bible. Can you please tell which one is true: same stories as in the Bible or not same stories? Can you prove that all of those stories are extacly the same as in the

3 - Tell me, you say we've everything by one man's words, but you've taken things from unknown people; so, what is the point of your argument?
My Response

1. I of course agree that all through the Bible we find references to earlier teaching or events but it never simply repeats them - what point could be made by God in doing that? However, the difference is that the event detail are not changed and so the issue is why if God as you say inspired the Torah and Injeel, in the Qu'ran the stories are recognisable (your similarities) but with added or changed details - one only for example has to look at say Joseph to see this - did God forget some of the facts and only recalled them for the Qu'ran or did he not quite inspire the Gospel writers correctly or did they get it wrong or Mohammed failed to remember correctly or was the Qu'ran adjusted?

2. It is a principle that the the earliest writings are the more correct and since there are no other source where do the additional Qu'ranic details come from? In terms of proof as we use it in this Board the FACT that let's say the story of Joseph can be found in Biblical texts that pre-date Islam by almost 1,000 years proves that the Qu'ran is a fabricated account.

If you simply used say Joseph as a way of learning about God and how we might live our lives I would have no objection and simply accept that it is YOUR book though heretical from my point of view. But what I do object to is when you claim that the Qu'ran is right and the Bible wrong.

3. I don't think I or anyone was arguing that the Qu'ran covers everything that was in the Bible. My point was that for the most part what is in the Qu'ran can be found elsewhere. Take the Cave for example as a non-biblical story that has been copied.

4. Biblically we have around 40 known authors and the Biblical books where accepted by the early church Fathers and have been subjected to painstaking research covering archaeology, history, theology, culture, etc since their inception so in terms of witnesses I have an unbroken line of revelation from Moses to Jesus. All you have is one book, most of which can be found elsewhere and ONE man's witness that it is from God. What should I trust on this evidence?
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Has Qur'an been Preserved?

^again, you're running in circle and avoiding the questions:

Did God plagiaries when he inspired the NT authors (I'm appealing to your belief) to write similar things, which were previously found in the OT? YES or NO?
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Has Qur'an been Preserved?

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Originally Posted by salman View Post
^again, you're running in circle and avoiding the questions: Did God plagiaries when he inspired the NT authors (I'm appealing to your belief) to write similar things, which were previously found in the OT? YES or NO?
As I stated VERY clearly, God inspired Biblical authors to make references to earlier events or teaching. It is not plagiarism to make a reference is it?

Now please stop going in circles and answer my questions. For example, I suggested that since the story of Joseph is recorded in Biblical texts perhaps 1,000 years before Mohammed that must be a proof that the Qu'ranic version is plagiarised and is therefore an obvious fabrication.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Has Qur'an been Preserved?

^Remarkably, when it came down to NT, your whole argument and definition suddenly changed. How is it a reference when it says more or less the same thing?

I've split the thread to keep on-topic discussion
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: Has Qur'an been Preserved?

I will respond tomorrow on this inshAllah. Currently I am out of town!

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Old 04-22-2009, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Does Qur'an Borrow/Plagiarize from Bible?

Salam

Quote:
2. It is a principle that the the earliest writings are the more correct and since there are no other source where do the additional Qu'ranic details come from? In terms of proof as we use it in this Board the FACT that let's say the story of Joseph can be found in Biblical texts that pre-date Islam by almost 1,000 years proves that the Qu'ran is a fabricated account.


As always, there are exceptions, as in this case, where the Quran clarifies the information which was lost from the previous scriptures due to meddling.

Quote:
But what I do object to is when you claim that the Qu'ran is right and the Bible wrong.

We also undoubtedly object to your claims that the Bible is right and the Quran is wrong.

Quote:
3. I don't think I or anyone was arguing that the Qu'ran covers everything that was in the Bible. My point was that for the most part what is in the Qu'ran can be found elsewhere. Take the Cave for example as a non-biblical story that has been copied.


The Quran is a rememberance. It clarifies and dispells falsehoods about things which people might know something about.

Quote:
4. Biblically we have around 40 known authors and the Biblical books where accepted by the early church Fathers and have been subjected to painstaking research covering archaeology, history, theology, culture, etc since their inception so in terms of witnesses I have an unbroken line of revelation from Moses to Jesus. All you have is one book, most of which can be found elsewhere and ONE man's witness that it is from God. What should I trust on this evidence?
So who are the teachers from which Muhammad(pbuh) learned from? (and other points raised by bro salman)
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Does Qur'an Borrow/Plagiarize from Bible?

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem,

as-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah.

This is more for myself and the forum so I can copy and past parts when I need them, and this is not a call out or reply to SJ as such for I don't think he visits here anymore, may Allah guide me and him.
Point I
First it should be clear that similarity does not entail copying, I hope to write something more about this in general sometime soon. Insha’Allah. But just logically speaking there could be many reasons why two documents may be similar or the same, and copying is not the only reason.

Point II – Replying to some points

1. I of course agree that all through the Bible we find references to earlier teaching or events but it never simply repeats them - what point could be made by God in doing that? However, the difference is that the event detail are not changed and so the issue is why if God as you say inspired the Torah and Injeel, in the Qu'ran the stories are recognisable (your similarities) but with added or changed details - one only for example has to look at say Joseph to see this - did God forget some of the facts and only recalled them for the Qu'ran or did he not quite inspire the Gospel writers correctly or did they get it wrong or Mohammed failed to remember correctly or was the Qu'ran adjusted?

Various things need to be understood, the objection seems as follows, if God inspired the Gospel and Torah, and yet we find the same stories in the Qur’an but different, then does this mean that God made a mistake in the previous revelations.

No! Rather one can just as well take the position that the previous revelations have been corrupted. Now, this is possible, but let us look at history and analyse things to see if it is probable.

When one looks at the history of what people claim to be the Torah and the Gospel (message of Jesus) and their preservations, one not only sees that there is possibility that there has been alteration and fabrication etc. One sees that there is likelihood of such things happening, if not certainty! No one (who has studied these topics) argues whether the Torah and the Message of Jesus have been corrupted, rather they argue to what extent have they been changed!

More could be said but for time restrains I will leave it here, and this is sufficient.



2. It is a principle that the the earliest writings are the more correct and since there are no other source where do the additional Qu'ranic details come from? In terms of proof as we use it in this Board the FACT that let's say the story of Joseph can be found in Biblical texts that pre-date Islam by almost 1,000 years proves that the Qu'ran is a fabricated account.

If you simply used say Joseph as a way of learning about God and how we might live our lives I would have no objection and simply accept that it is YOUR book though heretical from my point of view. But what I do object to is when you claim that the Qu'ran is right and the Bible wrong.

Various points are made here,

I – It is a principle that the the (sic) earliest writings are the more correct…?
This is a principle based on what? Based on the fact that the earliest documents allow less time for the memories of people to fade, moreover less time for the stories to pass through more people, which may affect the retention.

Yet if the provider of the information is both a Witness and Infallible, i.e. God, then it does not matter if He narrates it 2 days after the event or if He mentions it 1000 years! What follows then is that if God is the source of a book then this principle does not – if one is being logical - apply.

II – Story of Joseph being in a book before the Qur’an.

I don’ know what type of logical reasoning this would be, if I write a news article about an incident, 5 minutes after the incident, it does not mean that this is right and any person writing about it later is wrong. Refer to the explanation to the above principle.

III – What I do object to is when you claim that the Qur’an is right and the Bible is wrong.

Well a book can have some truth and some falsehood, just because a book may have some historically accurate accounts it does not necessitate that it is a) totally right, b) from God. So if we find some similarities between the accounts in the Qur’an and the Bible, it could be that the Bible is partially accurate in recounting history, just like I can be partially accurate in recounting through oral tradition what my great, great, great grandfather said.

3. I don't think I or anyone was arguing that the Qu'ran covers everything that was in the Bible. My point was that for the most part what is in the Qu'ran can be found elsewhere. Take the Cave for example as a non-biblical story that has been copied.

One needs to prove that the Qur’an has copied, both logically and historically.


4. Biblically we have around 40 known authors and the Biblical books where accepted by the early church Fathers and have been subjected to painstaking research covering archaeology, history, theology, culture, etc since their inception so in terms of witnesses I have an unbroken line of revelation from Moses to Jesus. All you have is one book, most of which can be found elsewhere and ONE man's witness that it is from God. What should I trust on this evidence?

Actually most of the authors are unknown! If they are known then bring your evidence and reasoning for thinking they are authors!

Many of the authors of the Bible never state that they want their books to be compiled into a Bible, so where does one claim this line of revelation!
After the claim of all these authors and books you have no evidence for why your faith is right, and why you should embrace it. Rather all these books do is confuse people, why? Because they have some truth, i.e. that God is one etc, and a lot of falsehood, contradictions, illogical statements and more!
Yet in this one man, prophet Muhammad, sallaAllahu alayhi wa salam, who received revelation in various ways, both verbatim and other than that. The Muslim has logical and reasonable reasons for his belief. A Muslim cannot find a logical argument against his religion and if he wants to leave has to claim to have had a dream or some rubbish for no logical, historical, scientific argument can work against this religion, if one is truly mindful of the limitations of these methods.

Moreover, this path encourages the man to look and ponder and strive to seek, this one author (so claimed by some to be) has done more than the 40 authors, revisionist, church fathers, and other. His message is a miracle, his life is unbelievably amazing, his legacy is reason enough for belief and the fact he is alone makes this more outstanding! Yet foolishly people claim to disbelieve in him due to his solitarily having brought forth evidences and a deen which is undefeatable and impenetrable by a logical, honest, seeker of truth seeking to falsify it.

And Allah knows best.
Br.al-Habeshi
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:49 AM
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Default Is the Quran Copied From the Bible?

Asallamalikum

I just made this post to clearify for non-muslims who think holy quran is copied or piligarise from the bible! Which is a very common mistake.

In the name of Allah (swt).

Why do christians or Jews say Mohammed (saw) piligarised the quran?
Because there are similarities between the two holy books , like the story of abraham,moses (pbu) them.

before i move on, we must note:

1.) Mohammed (Saw) was Illiterate (meaning he couldn't read or write)
2.) The bible was never translated, into arabic language( who claims this muslims,hindus,atheists??? NO ITS THE CHRISTIANS WHO SAYS THE BIBLE WASNT TRANSLATED INTO ARABIC UNTIL 10TH CENTURAY. wHICH is 100 of years after the holy quran, compiled.) SO why do christians still say quran is copied !?

Arguments by Jews and Christians!

1.) the quran has stories which are in the bible.
2.) Like moses story, abraham story, and etc.

again before i move on we must bear in mind what , Copying or Piligraising means!! Define: Copying is the duplication of information or an artifact based only on an instance of that information or artifact, and not using the process that..

en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Copied

So if mohammed(pbuh) copied the bible he must have copied everything. Was he a sciencetist, that he corrected most of the bibles mistake and put it in quran ? its illogical because the bible tells us how to rape your own sisters.
( 2 Samuel 13:6) ...and it has many scienctific errors such as 6 day creation , its says Earth is created before sun like come on.. The quran Says the Earth and heavens is created in 6 days it uses word AYAM .. it has 2 meaning long period or short... the bible tells us following:

Breaking the Sabbath:

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 31:15)"

"Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. (Exodus 35:2)"

Cursing your parents:

"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 21:17)"

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)"

Thou shalt not kill:

"Thou shalt not kill. (Exodus 20:13)"

"Thou shalt not kill. (Deuteronomy 5:17)"

Adultery:

"Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)"

"Neither shalt thou commit adultery. (Deuteronomy 5:18)"



Stealing:

"Thou shalt not steal. (Exodus 20:15)"

"Neither shalt thou steal. (Deuteronomy 5:19)"



Covet:

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ######, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:17)"

"Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ######, or any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Deuteronomy 5:21)"

Punishment for worshiping other gods, or leaving the True Worship of the Absolute One GOD Almighty:

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)"

"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die. (Deuteronomy 17:3-5)"

i wonder Why Mohammed (saw) didnt write this in quran uhmmmm...? and I wonder if he was a scientist that he never made a mistake.


If christian still think , quran is copied, then we can argue saying jesus copied the bible from old testoment.

wsallam

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu1GOxhbQE4 - Does the Quran Copy Bible- Dr.zakir naik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4q4BN2NyYA&feature=related - They Say Quran is Copied from bible....- Sheikh Ahmad Deedat

I recommend Everyone to watch this one, some one narrates from hadith...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAXZIrsj264- Dr.zakir Naik.


wsallam

Last edited by salman; 11-15-2009 at 03:40 AM. Reason: fixed embed videos
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Is the Quran Copied From the Bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnikid View Post
Asallamalikum I just made this post to clearify for non-muslims who think holy quran is copied or piligarise from the bible! Which is a very common mistake. In the name of Allah (swt).

Why do christians or Jews say Mohammed (saw) plagiarised the quran? Because there are similarities between the two holy books, like the story of abraham,moses (pbu) them. Before i move on, we must note:

1.) Mohammed (Saw) was Illiterate (meaning he couldn't read or write)
2.) The bible was never translated, into arabic language( who claims this muslims,hindus,atheists??? NO ITS THE CHRISTIANS WHO SAYS THE BIBLE WASNT TRANSLATED INTO ARABIC UNTIL 10TH CENTURAY. wHICH is 100 of years after the holy quran, compiled.) SO why do christians still say quran is copied !?
Firstly, the fact that Mohammed was illiterate does not mean he did not hear Bible stories or get Bible stories read to him. There were Jewish and Christian communities all over Arabia and he lived on trade routes and was a trader himself.

The Hebrew and Christian scriptures had long been available in Greek which was the lingua franca of the day so it is not of any regard that is was not available in Arabic.

The point is obvious, one only has to hear a story to copy it so your arguments so far are not compelling in any way.
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