> Why God's Book Cannot Contain Error

[SilverLJ]

[QUOTE=salman;7332] [in answer to the Question why did not God preserve the 'original Bible' Salman said]

Because Allah Ta'ala had decreed to send new revealtion on His last and final Prophet (peace be upon him). Do you dare to question your Lord about what and why He does something? Talk about being Christian and serving the Lord!

Comment by Silver - this is not in any way an acceptable argument and it looks entirely straw. Frankly, it looks as if its been invented because one cannot make any logical sense about this mystical 'original Bible' and so it is the only way you can make any sense out of the facts that The Qu'ran contradicts the Bible.

Comment By Silver - Yes, I do question why God has done something and Biblically every Prophet did the same from Abraham onwards. We are children of God and so often we find his working difficult and perplexing so we naturally cry out to him for help and comfort and understanding and that is why the women who came to Jesus expressed something we all feel when she said 'Lord, I believe, help my unbelief'. That is the Biblical God - one who loves us and wants us to communicate with him and that is also why the most common name for God in the Bible is to speak of and address him as Father.

[salamfromrom]

also why the most common name for God in the Bible is to speak of and address him as Father.

Salam


I have a honest question....I don't know much about the intricacies of the bible, but doesn't it make more sense to you from a logical standpoint that God is One, indivisible and Unique, who has no "son" in any sense of the term?

Isen't it more plausible that the One God sent many messengers on Earth, human beings such as Moses (pbuh) and Jesus(pbuh) who were not in any way divine , but only fulfilled the duty which their Lord and our Lord gave them?

Is it simpler for you to believe in this Trinity concept where God sent a part of Himself on earth and allowed people to torture Him and Kill Him in order for him to forgive the sins of mankind through His sacrifice? I mean does that make sense to you really? Or do you subscribe to another christian interpretation....like Unitarianism etc...

Salam

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by salamfromrom

Salam

I have a honest question....I don't know much about the intricacies of the bible, but doesn't it make more sense to you from a logical standpoint that God is One, indivisible and Unique, who has no "son" in any sense of the term?

Isen't it more plausible that the One God sent many messengers on Earth, human beings such as Moses (pbuh) and Jesus(pbuh) who were not in any way divine , but only fulfilled the duty which their Lord and our Lord gave them?

Is it simpler for you to believe in this Trinity concept where God sent a part of Himself on earth and allowed people to torture Him and Kill Him in order for him to forgive the sins of mankind through His sacrifice? I mean does that make sense to you really? Or do you subscribe to another christian interpretation....like Unitarianism etc...

Salam

Its not a matter of logic because the Bible I would argue teaches that God is one but also three persons: one in three and three in one. There are no adequate ways to explain this and it is not within our understanding. People will by analogy say for example that you are body, soul and spirit but no one would say you are three persons so what does it mean when we say this? It is not necessary that we understand something or see it as logical to believe it although both these are useful aids to faith.

There are many things in Islam that are illogical: why walk around the black stone 7 times, why grow a beard, can there be a bridge one crosses at death, why should God have any concern for us, logically Latin or Greek would have been better languages for the Qu'ran because they were well developed and so on.

I would agree that God gradually revealed himself to us through His prophets and in some sense through nature as well.

Jesus was God incarnate. The question is how can a holy God forgive sin. If he were to do it arbitrarily then he would not be holy would it, he cannot act on a whim because that would not be holy either? Logically, we need someone to accept the punishment for our sins instead of us. That is how it works in Christianity, Jesus suffered for us and therefore makes us free. How does it work in Islam, how will you sins be forgiven, how will you get to heaven?

Just to be clear here, this does seem a relevant post as it does have implications for the validity of the Qu'ran

[salamfromrom]

There are many things in Islam that are illogical: why walk around the black stone 7 times, why grow a beard, can there be a bridge one crosses at death, why should God have any concern for us,

These are secondary issues, issues of ''fiqh'' I believe it's called. These things are not pertaining to the nature of God, which in islam makes perfect sense. There's nothing illogical about 1 god as explained by islam. I cannot say the same for the trinity which as you claim needs to be understood without logic...

logically Latin or Greek would have been better languages for the Qu'ran because they were well developed and so on.

I think the people (non-muslims and muslims alike) who know arabic can tell you that it is a very sophisticated language.

Jesus was God incarnate. The question is how can a holy God forgive sin.

The question is why would God come in human form to ''die'' for OUR sins.....what purpose does letting yourself get abused by lowly humans serve...when you're the almighty creator...

Logically, we need someone to accept the punishment for our sins instead of us.

umm, that's not very logical now is it? what purpose does this life serve if someone else will take the blame for our sins? where's the accountability?

That is how it works in Christianity, Jesus suffered for us and therefore makes us free.

why would God suffer for people? I mean He IS the Creator and all.... Im guessing you will say ''The Lord works in mysterious ways'' but it just doesnt seem to make a lot of sense.

How does it work in Islam, how will you sins be forgiven, how will you get to heaven?

First we must believe in God, the One without a partner or sons or anything of the sort, then we must have the intention to be dutiful to Him by being good people and do good acts such as prayer, charity and establishing a just society, and Hope for the Mercy of God who will hold us accountable for our actions after we pass on to the next life. If we were sinful muslims, He may choose to punish us for a while, or forgive us and admit us into heaven which should be the goal of every muslim.
That's it in a nutshell. You may notice that there's no concept of ''Original sin'' in Islam. Every able minded human is responsible for his or her own actions and will reap the rewards accordingly. No person or other being will bear the burden of our own sins.

Salam

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by salamfromrom

These are secondary issues, issues of ''fiqh'' I believe it's called. These things are not pertaining to the nature of God, which in islam makes perfect sense. There's nothing illogical about 1 god as explained by islam. I cannot say the same for the trinity which as you claim needs to be understood without logic...

By Silver - fine, ignore my arguments and I shall do the same with yours and regard them as 'secondary'

I think the people (non-muslims and muslims alike) who know arabic can tell you that it is a very sophisticated language.

By Silver - it might be now but it was not at the time of the prophet and if you had bothered to do some research you would know that a large part of its sophistication comes from its extensive borrowing from all sort of other language sources.

The question is why would God come in human form to ''die'' for OUR sins.....what purpose does letting yourself get abused by lowly humans serve...when you're the almighty creator...

umm, that's not very logical now is it? what purpose does this life serve if someone else will take the blame for our sins? where's the accountability?

By Silver - we are all accountable and that is the point, when we meet God none of us is going to have a clean sheet so if God is Holy how can he deal with us. You don't seem to have an answer?

why would God suffer for people? I mean He IS the Creator and all.... Im guessing you will say ''The Lord works in mysterious ways'' but it just doesnt seem to make a lot of sense.

By Silver - I agree, why should God bother with us at all, it simply makes no sense does it?

First we must believe in God, the One without a partner or sons or anything of the sort, then we must have the intention to be dutiful to Him by being good people and do good acts such as prayer, charity and establishing a just society, and Hope for the Mercy of God who will hold us accountable for our actions after we pass on to the next life. If we were sinful muslims, He may choose to punish us for a while, or forgive us and admit us into heaven which should be the goal of every muslim.

By Silver - of course we must try to be good and do good but huge numbers of people Muslim, Christian and non-believes do good and are good. If all you have as far as faith goes is a mild hope that some heavenly scales will come down in your favour then like Paul we have to say "we are of all men most miserable".

That's it in a nutshell. You may notice that there's no concept of ''Original sin'' in Islam. Every able minded human is responsible for his or her own actions and will reap the rewards accordingly. No person or other being will bear the burden of our own sins.Salam

In that case everyone is destined for hell since no one is free from sin. Alternatively, everyone whether Muslim or not gets weighed in the same balances and so there is no value in being Muslim. If God is just and Holy then those attributes must be satisfied, it cannot logically condone even the smallest sin - looks like on your scheme of things none of us has cause for hope.