> Time

[binnasoordeen]

just when I study I just thought that some people say

"if allah had designed a destiny for every thing in the earth then we dont have free will"

this is wrong cuz allah almighty god isn't bound to time ryt ? allah created time so allah knows what will a person do in his life

PS :
just a simple reasoning but dont misunderstand me that I am searching reasoning 4 all islamic concepts like some modernist
It just came in ma mind
I shared a thought with u all
correct me if I am wrong

[Tema]

Originally Posted by farshad

just when I study I just thought that some people say

"if allah had designed a destiny for every thing in the earth then we dont have free will"

this is wrong cuz allah almighty god isn't bound to time ryt ? allah created time so allah knows what will a person do in his life

PS :
just a simple reasoning but dont misunderstand me that I am searching reasoning 4 all islamic concepts like some modernist
It just came in ma mind
I shared a thought with u all
correct me if I am wrong

Allah is the most knowledgeable as we know. He knows what we will do by our choice, He doesn't make us do it. He is testing us. Why does Allah test us when He knows the result? Because He is the most fair. Would it be fair if Allah threw them to jehannam for something they have never ever done? No.

And His beautiful name of being the most fair also answers why would Allah make someone burn in Hell (He gave them a choice on this life to choose jennah). Because He doesn't grant paradise to someone who doesn't deserve it. It wouldn't be fair.
Allah knows who will read the book and obey what He says. Ane He knows who will thow it behind their backs. So kuffar choose to be kuffar...


Allah forbidds us all that is haraam, bad for us (drugs, alcohol etc..). And so He created us to worship Him that way. "Allah alone created all creatures without assistance. He dispenses the lives of His creatures to certain conditions and controls their affairs in His own way. Allah is infallible, everything He creates and brings about is right. Anyone who strayes from His divine bindding will meet with ruin. Allah created the earth and the heavens and in His wisdom sustains them; therefore they move in a state of harmony << Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) gods beside Allah, then verily both would have been ruined.>> (21:22)

Man is one of the creatures of Allah the most exalted. Actuating the good in one's life is dependent upon knowing and following what is right, while destruction is the natural outcome of ignoring or neglecting it. Hense, Allah being the truth (Al-Haqq) and all truth emanating from Him. The riun of human life is a result of disbelief in Allah and the trth that comes from Him." Faith Al-Iman Its Pillars, True Meaning

SadeqAllah hu le Adhim.



[QUOTE]
Belief in al-qadar as we have described it above does not contradict the idea that a person has free will with regard to actions in which he has free choice. He can choose whether to or not to do things that he is able to do of acts of worship or sinful actions. Sharee’ah and real life both indicate that people have this will.
With regard to sharee’ah, Allaah says concerning man's will (interpretation of the meaning):
“That is (without doubt) the True Day. So, whosoever wills, let him seek a place with (or a way to) His Lord (by obeying Him in this worldly life)!”
[al-Naba’ 78:39]
“so go to your tilth, when or how you will”
[al-Baqarah 2:223]
And He says concerning man’s ability (interpretation of the meaning):
“So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can”
[al-Taghaabun 64:16]
“Allaah burdens not a person beyond his scope. He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned”
[al-Baqarah 2:286]
These verses confirm that man has a will and the ability to do what he wants and not to do what he does not want.
With regard to real life, everyone knows that he has a will and the ability to do what he wants and not to do what he does not want. And he can distinguish between the things that happen when he wants them to, such as walking, and those that happen without him wanting them to, such as shivering. But the will and ability of man are subject to the will and decree of Allaah, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“To whomsoever among you who wills to walk straight.
And you cannot will unless (it be) that Allaah wills the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”
[al-Takweer 81:28-29]
But the entire universe is the dominion of Allaah, and nothing can happen in His dominion without His knowledge and will.
And Allaah knows best.
See Risaalat Sharh Usool al-Eemaan by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen.

Islam Q&A

[/QUOTE]

[binnasoordeen]

^ jazaakallah Kyr u r correct that we have free will BTW thax for all for replaying and I think I should end this discussion cuz it slowly moves towards al-qadr which isn't good

--
bye

Belief in al-qadar is the real test of the extent of a person’s belief in Allaah. It is the true test of how much a person really knows about his Lord and what results from this knowledge of certain and sincere faith in Allaah, and His attributes of majesty and perfection. That is because al-qadar raises many questions for the one who gives free rein to his reasoning to try to fully comprehend it. There have been many disputes concerning the issue of al-qadar and many people have engaged in debates and misinterpreted the verses of the Qur’aan that mention it. Indeed, the enemies of Islam in all eras have provoked confusion in the Muslims’ beliefs by discussing the issue of al-qadar and stirring up doubts about it. So no one can have true and certain faith except the one who knows Allaah by His beautiful names and sublime attributes, submitting to His commands with peace of mind and trusting in his Lord. In that case no doubts or specious arguments can find a way into his heart. Undoubtedly this is the greatest proof that belief in al-qadar is more important than belief in the other pillars of faith, and that the human mind cannot independently come to understand al-qadar, because al-qadar is one of the mysteries of Allaah in His creation; whatever Allaah has disclosed to us in His Book or on the lips of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) we know, accept and believe in, and whatever our Lord has not told us, we believe in and we believe in His perfect justice and wisdom, and that He is not to be questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.

Islam Question and Answer - Belief of Ahl al-Sunnah concerning al-Qada’ wa’l-Qadar (Divine Will and Decree)

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum
Copy paste from my website:

Argument from free will
I've already discussed free will a bit on the four-dimensionalism page. But as you can see in the following paragraphs, the issue of free will lies at the base of many arguments against theism, so it seems important enough to bring up here again. Other then that, free will as a very dominant aspect of monotheistic religions; and is a necessity for concepts of punishment and reward, hell and heaven. A God that punishes and rewards his own creation without giving them freedom of choice, makes about as much sense as a computer programmer who writes software that doesn't work, and then is angry with his software for not doing what he wanted it to do. Here are some of the concepts that at first glance contradict free will.

• Free will vs. fate
  When people think about fate or destiny being inevitable; they usually assume it is inevitable despite of our choices rather then because of our choices. To illustrate this with an example. Say a person sits at a diner, deciding whether he'd have coffee or tea. Lets say hypothetically that if he'll take the tea, he'll get sleepy and get run over by a car when exiting the diner as opposed to when he takes coffee which will make him jumpy enough to avoid being hit. When you add fate into the picture, many people will be inclined to think that if the person is destined to be run over, then he will inevitable be run over despite his choice of coffee or tea. In that view, any personal choice can be rendered as irrelevant, and free will is a pipe dream. However there is an alternative view. One could say that the person is destined to be run over because he chooses to have tea. In that view, destiny doesn't deny choice. But rather our choice creates a destiny. Of course some might say that this is a play on words and that in this view, destiny and fate loose there value. But that argument is strictly semantic. Perhaps the value I propose is contradictory to contemporary semantics, but can we honestly claim to know what the semantic value was of a word more then a millennium ago, in the days of the prophets when the concept of fate was introduced? If we cannot, then this alternative view should be kept into consideration.
• Free will vs. predestination
  Predestination ties in very closely to fate and destiny. However, it is a very specific form of destiny and fate. The prefix "pre" stresses that this destiny is already set prior to it happening, and perhaps also known prior to it happening. Again, there's a big semantic problem here that I explain in the page dedicated to time. the word "already" is nonsensical in that sentence because it is a word derived from a presentists point of view. If we include layers of time into this objection, we find that the statement becomes: "At the time₁ that I haven't made a choice yet₁ the future₁ is already₂ determined." So it isn't really "already" decided in the sense that we have no saying in it, since that already refers to secondary layer of time. It is already₂ decided because an observer outside of time₁ would see which course of action we will₁ take. That has no bearing on the causality of this time. And it certainly doesn't mean our window of opportunity to make a choice has passed. The reason the future is set is because our choices are know. In other words, our choices are included into the determination, so the determination does not negate us having a choice.
• Free will vs. causal determinism
  The problem that physical causality has with free will; is that it suggests our will is not free at all. If you view the brain as a biological machine which responds to electrical impulses and chemical balances of hormones, then the end result -your choice- can be predicted by the laws of nature. This somehow strips the concept of person input and freedom. This used to be one of the reasons why I considered myself atheistic in the past. As I reconsidered these arguments later in life however, I came to the conclusion that no proof nor indication can be found in the fields of neuro-psychology that confirms this view. First of all we need to consider what causality actually is. As I illustrated here science still has no clue of what causality actually is. We only examine the events that are correlated, not the correlation itself. And on this page I've shown how our views on time could fundamentally change our concept of causality. So just because the results are causal, is not enough to conclude that they aren't our personal, free wills. Furthermore our current knowledge on the human mind is way to limited. There is definitely still more then enough room for interpreting the mind as free. Right now we have no idea how the brain stores memories, how we make decisions, and so on. All we have researched so far is that there is a certain correlation between certain area's of the brain and certain thoughts. We've established this by monitoring brain activity during certain thoughts the test subject has. But the interpretation given to the results are very biased. Many assume that since the area is correlated, that must mean that activity in that area causes or triggers a certain thought. And what about the influence of electrons in our brains? It has been suggested that chaos theory applies to our brain. Chaos theory is the theory that a very small process -in this case the behaviour of an electron- can have a determinant influence on the outcome of a much larger event. This is sometimes also called the butterfly effect. How does this affect causality? Well, we don't know yet how causal the behaviour of electrons actually is! Is their behaviour strictly random, or is there an underlying cause for it? Of course I grant that us humans do experience basic, instinctive impulses and desires that drive us. And because of those impulses we actually have a lot less freedom than some wish to think. However, we can deny these urges by choice! Take fasting for example. Denying ones basic urges to eat for a full day. We have yet to understand how such a choice works on a neuro-psychological level. And that is what true freedom of choice means. That is why someone who chooses to ignore his lusts and urges, and instead chooses to follow religion acquires the greatest degree of freedom one can have. Because what you do then is ignore your causal body, and follow your spiritual soul. In other words, the choice boils down to this: be a slave of your urges, and needs, or be a slave of God.
• Free will vs. omniscience of God
  The argument goes, if our creator is omniscient; he knew exactly what we would eventually do. He thus created some of us despite knowing very well they 'd fail. Or even more convincing, he made us in such a specific manner and environment that we would inevitably fail. This isn't actually an argument against free will, but rather an argument against the responsibility of our free will. As I illustrated before, predestination does not negate free will and personal input. The argument here isn't that we were created without a choice. The argument here is that we were created with choice despite that our creator knew some of us would end up making the wrong choice! This is very twisted. If predestination doesn't negate free will, it shouldn't negate responsibility either. Just because God knew in advance, doesn't mean it isn't our choice and our responsibility. This is in fact the other side of the free-will-coin. Free will comes hand in hand with responsibility, and trying to push responsibility to our creator, is in a way rejecting free will, not denying it. The argument is not saying "I don't have it", but rather saying: "I don't want it".