> Two Excellent Example of Hijab

[salman]

Originally Posted by Unknown

I though we couldn't speak to men at all, well, unnecessarily. But what is unnecessary here? I hope that the following is related.

sister, may Allah preserve you, we were talking about cases when it is necessary for women to speak with non-mahram men.

[Tema]

Originally Posted by salman

sister, may Allah preserve you, we were talking about cases when it is necessary for women to speak with non-mahram men.

I'll admit that I speak to men, unnecessarily.Of course, not with the intention to seduce anyone. When you're oround classmates, sometimes you're just asking a question you're curious about. .... I guess I shouldn't do that..

[salman]

^wa'alaykum as-salam

sister, studying in mix schools, colleges and universities is altogether a different issue and it is haraam unless there is a necessity. Most brothers, living in the west, they don't have an option and they have to get degrees so that they can be provider for their families. But this is not the case for most sisters so we advise them to use the halal means (i.e., online, home schooling, etc.) to educate themselves. and Allah knows best

[Tema]

Originally Posted by salman

^wa'alaykum as-salam

sister, studying in mix schools, colleges and universities is altogether a different issue and it is haraam unless there is a necessity. Most brothers, living in the west, they don't have an option and they have to get degrees so that they can be provider for their families. But this is not the case for most sisters so we advise them to use the halal means (i.e., online, home schooling, etc.) to educate themselves. and Allah knows best

JazzakAllau Khayr

Well, I haveread a fatwa that says what you have. What cofuses me about Islam, has beed confusing me since I've started learning about it.

I do not understand the necessaty part. For example, when I was to cover, I had to cover no matter what. It is an obligation period, no exeption. It is haraam to attend mixed universiteies etc... Why is there an exception? Maybe Allah wants me to obey Him facing great trials. To disobey those who are forcing me to go to school and try whatever possible to go to college online. But how would I get trained for the job?

Maybe Allah wants me to live in poverty. Believers should live in poverty. Those who don't, than have no excuse of worshiping what they choose to.

[salamfromrom]

sister, studying in mix schools, colleges and universities is altogether a different issue and it is haraam unless there is a necessity. Most brothers, living in the west, they don't have an option and they have to get degrees so that they can be provider for their families. But this is not the case for most sisters so we advise them to use the halal means (i.e., online, home schooling, etc.) to educate themselves. and Allah knows best

Salamu a leikum

Remember when Caliph Umar (if my memory serves me correctly) appointed a woman as police chief in the marketplace?

also, many famous muslim scholars (Ibn Taymyiah if I remember correctly and many others) studied islam from women.

Also, looking at the first generations, they went about their business, both men and women, in public without a problem. Women and men used to talk to eachother and they were exercising good judgement and didn't flirt.

I must say, I find your ideas on gender segregation somewhat dangerous because they could be interpreted to support an extremist police state.


Salam

[Tema]

The Communication Between Men & Women Over the Internet

Compiled by: Abu Ziead al-Athary

Assalamu alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakatuhu

The noble Shaykh Ubayd al-Jabari ý may Allaah protect him- repeats his warning against communication, with mobile phones or over the internet, between men and women while claiming the justification of seeking knowledge or giving Dawaý.

In an open question and answer session taking place every Sunday evening in the Paltalk room ýSalafi Duroosý, the noble Shaykh said: ýCommunicating over the telephone is an area and way in which the heart of both the speaker and communicator will become attached to the otherýs!ý
Here is a transcript of what the Shaykh commented on after an answer to a similar question:

ýI would like to bring to attention a dangerous issueý. Which many of the Muslim men and women who they ascribe themselves to knowledge fall into. I have dealt with this issue before but many of the people have refused it and that they have been obstinate and rejected the advice!!

From the news that has reached me of the danger of this issue, a person finds it embarrassing to mention itý. And this is the issue, which is individuals speaking over the phone and communicating via mobile phones.

This matter has overcome many men and women with the justification of Dawaý but this justification is not valid and it is an excuse which is corrupt. It is not hidden from every Muslim man and woman whose heart has been filled with the awe and reverential fear of Allaah, that al-Khallwaa (being alone with a member of the opposite sex with whom there is no relation) is Haraam. The meaning here is that khallwaa is being alone with strange men and women.

As for the evil effects of this, as have been relayed to me, they are more severe than al-Khallwaa (being alone with a member of the opposite sex with whom there is no relation), since al-Khallwaa in a house or in a car causes the people to look at them, as for communicating over the internet and sending and receiving messages over the phone then this is a hidden Khallwaa, which is only known to the Originator of the heavens and the earth and the noble scribes (Angels).

Indeed many women have complained that what has busied their husbands are these conversations and communication and I will mention some of their evil effects for you:

Firstly: if these communications are taking place in a chat room, for example in ýSalafi Duroosý so I say in the name of those supervising ýSalafi Duroosý ýthis type of chatting is a sin upon youý this type of chatting is a sin upon you ý I do not hold it to be permissibleý I say this because I supervise ýSalafi Duroosý so I speak with the ruling of a representative.

Secondly: Chatting like this busies one from learning knowledge, since those who isolate themselves by conversing with whatever they want from conversation, then they busy themselves away from what is transmitted by ýSalafi Duroosý and from other knowledge-based lessons and this is obstruction in the path of Allaah.

Thirdly: Communicating over the telephone is an area and way in which the heart of both the speaker and communicator will become attached to the otherýs! And this is ý I swear by Allaah ý the path of Fitnah and an entrance for shaytaan. It is not permissible for you, O dear Muslim sister, that you spend your time conversing with strangers with the justification of Dawaý. If you have the pressing need to ask a question then ask the people of knowledge to the extent of your need and then turn away.

Further, this communication has in it greetings and gentle speech which is a type of submissive speech which has been prohibited, O Muslim sister. As a result, perhaps you might be a cause of what creeps in between married couples of unrest, quarrels and bad relations between them, the result of which could perhaps be divorce.

I have come to know that in the West and perhaps also in the East, that which is hated has occurred due to this communication and conversing. This is why I call every Salafi man and woman to leave this terrible action which Shaytaan has opened up to them and beautified in their hearts, using the justification of knowledge and spreading of knowledge and Dawaý. It was not from the practice of the Salaf that men and women would meet up to study together, but rather a woman would ask a scholar about what a woman needs in her Deen. Also, if a female scholar was found then she would sit and listen to the men and women who came to her and would speak to the men in the presence of her guardian from behind a screen.

This is what I wanted to bring to (your) attention and Allaah knows I did not intend anything but advice and I hold that this advice to you is an obligation upon us, O dear Muslims. Allaah is The One Who guides to the correct way.ý

We say JazakAllaahu Khairan O our Shaykh for this fine advice and we ask Allaah -Subhana wa Taýala- that He grants us and all our brothers and sisters the ability to follow the advice of the Shaykh, which he always repeats in his gatherings.

We also advise the brothers and sisters that when the lessons begin, whether they are live or recorded, that they should not busy themselves with talking on the side. We ý and all praise belongs to Allaah ý sacrifice time, effort and wealth for these lessons, to transmit them to you while you are in your homes or offices, so then it saddens us to know that some people attend with their nicknames only, while they are busy chatting on the side - which has no benefit - and Allaahýs aid is sought.

We ask Allaah -Subhana wa Taýala - that He grants us awe and reverential fear of Him in secret and in open and that He grants us sincerity in all our actions, Allaah is The Guide to the correct way.

Your Brother
Abu Ziead al-Athary

This answeres my questions over the forums.......

جديد - تحذير الشيخ عبيد الجابري من المكالمات بين الإخوة و الأخوات بحجة العلم و الدعوة - شبكة سحاب السلفية

[salman]

@salamfromrom

I am sorry akh, the last portion of your comments needed to be removed and please don't post them again. The understanding of the shari'ah is not based upon what laymen think and how they understand it.

Akhee, learn to guard your tongue and speaking about religious matters without knowledge. It is an obligation upon us to preserve and protect our deen. Please consider this as a sincere advice from your brother.

What I presented is how the scholars have understood for 14 centuries. If my understanding is contrary to the understanding of the scholars then I am willing to rectify from my statements and change my views. And the one who disagrees need to bring solid evidence(s) and explain why that evidence have not been understood that way for centuries instead of relaying on odd interpretations and singling out historical incidents.

As far rest, I will reply to it later, insha'Allah

[salamfromrom]

Salam

No problem, it's your forum ;-)


However, I should point out that I did not advocate anything that was contrary to what the scholars you yourself are quoting mention.

I agree that people should not talk to eachother unless they deem it necessary to do so. As far as I know this is 100% as the scholars understand it.

What I was speaking out against was what I perceive to be this excessive modern ''nanny'' mentality which prohibits that which Allah(swt) has allowed.

Case in point: the banning of girls from school by the Taliban and their extreme and unlawful segregation of the sexes far above and beyond what was practiced by muhammad(pbuh).

Peace

[Tema]

Case in point: the banning of girls from school by the Taliban and their extreme and unlawful segregation of the sexes far above and beyond what was practiced by muhammad(pbuh).

There is a ruling on segragation of men and women in Islam.
Islam Question and Answer - Evidence Prohibiting of Mixing of Men and Women

When we put the following question: What is the Islamic ruling on mixing as far as you know? The results were as follows:
76% of respondents said “It is not permitted.”
12% said, “It is permitted” – but moral, religious, etc. restrictions apply…
12% said, “I don’t know.”
Which would you choose?
If you had the choice between working in a mixed workplace and working in another where there was no mixing, which would you choose?
The responses to this question were as follows:
76% would choose the workplace where there was no mixing.
9% preferred the mixed workplace.
15% would accept any workplace which suited their specialties, regardless of whether it was mixed or not.
Very embarrassing
Have any embarrassing situations ever happened to you because of mixing?

Memories............O Allah!!!



Sorry but I precieve your reply sarcastic. Sarcasm is putting someone down. The brother was correct. Putting his views down, is putting Islam down. I hope I am wrong.

[salman]

Originally Posted by Unknown

JazzakAllau Khayr

barak Allahu feek wa iyyak

Originally Posted by Unknown

Well, I haveread a fatwa that says what you have. What cofuses me about Islam, has beed confusing me since I've started learning about it.

I do not understand the necessaty part. For example, when I was to cover, I had to cover no matter what. It is an obligation period, no exeption. It is haraam to attend mixed universiteies etc... Why is there an exception?

sister, there is nothing to be confused about. There are general rulings and then for certain situations a ruling can be changed due to different circumstances. This is how it has been come to us through the Qur'an, the Sunnah and understanding of the Salaf. Let me give you few examples:

1 - General ruling is that it is haraam to eat non-zabih meat. However, in the Shari'ah if a person is dying and he has nothing to eat then it is permissible for him to eat haraam meat. This is an extreme case of necessity.
2 - Similarly, we know it is haraam to lie but under 3 circumstances it is permissible to lie. Those cases are extreme necessity cases.

I hope you get the point. The general ruling regarding attending co-ed. institutions is that they are haraam. However, it is permissible for those who have no other choice and have to financially support themselves and their family. The exception is generally applicable to brothers but if some sisters also fall into this category then it could also be applied to them. and Allah knows best

Originally Posted by Unknown

Maybe Allah wants me to obey Him facing great trials. To disobey those who are forcing me to go to school and try whatever possible to go to college online. But how would I get trained for the job?

Maybe Allah wants me to live in poverty. Believers should live in poverty. Those who don't, than have no excuse of worshiping what they choose to.

We know that this world is a trial for believers so we have to be steadfast and not sacrifice our deen for anything. The ruling on mixed environment jobs is same as studying in mixed environment. No, Allah doesn't want anyone to live in poverty. You are a sister and all your financial needs must be taken care by your wali (father, brother, uncle, husband, etc.). Hence, you don't have to worry about high paid jobs etc. If you really want to work then try home jobs or other halal jobs.

I am a university student and let me tell you that they don't give us any sort of job trainings. You are on your own; it is something that you have to learn on your own. Online learning is improving every day it is not as bad as it is used to be in the past. If your parents are Muslims then advise them kindly and gently about ruling in Islam. If they are not Muslims in that case you will have to seek fawa from someone knowledgeable. Are you registered on Multaqa ahl al-hadith forum? If so then you can ask ustad Ayman for a suitable fatwa for yourself.