> Strengthening yourself in debate EXERCISE

[Qatada]

Have you guys ever been in debate with someone (not just for dawah, but anything)? and you see some people who are proper harsh and swear and all that, you feel confused how to reply.

No matter how good you are in logical arguing, its kind of hard to respond to these type of people. I remember being on msn ages ago before i knew how to give dawah, but this guy just carried on swearing in the group conversation and i never felt like swearing back - but i felt like i never knew how to reply back. Even the most powerful of debators or du'at don't know how to respond to something like this - and the bad guy seems like the winner (because of his/her bad manners.)


So i wanted to see a thread where you don't debate based on logic or 'step by step' arguments, but you debate and build your confidence and know how to react to these type of people. I'd like to see how you guys react, any personal info. u want to give in how to react to something like this? or maybe even some conversations between you, and how others would react to that certain statement or conversation.



sorry if its confusing, but plz reply if u understand with your ideas insha allah..

[Assad]

I understand your point and its a good question raised by you.

I remember 2 years back when I first time out of my interest search Islam on Internet I was amazed. I always had a great desire to know more religion but since my urdu wasnt good and I didnt had enough resources to buy an english version of books. So I was overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge available online.

I'll go on telling in a nutshell.... Then I came across the Yahoo!Answers and many debates and I nearly lost faith. I had been inclined towards Christanity , Hinduism and then finally Atheism.

I can still feel that pain when I wasnt able to sleep at night with doubt in my mind and faithless heart , no one to seek help and i was lost in unanswerable questions. Answering Christanity website was of great help.. Then slowly slowly I kept myself closed and tried to answer questions myself and Alhamdulilah I feel my faith , if not growing , stronger.

I had a debate with a Pakistani Christian on which he lost badly and Allah gave me a clear victory. Then my debate with AyeshaW and her becoming a Muslim were all additions to my faith.

Whenver I see anyone reacting like a madguy , I think we should have patience and only reply why?How? Is that so? say all this very coooly and he will become pissed up.

I Advice NOT TO TALK TO SUCH PEOPLE. They are all useless. If you logon to Yahoo Chat in Islam and other religion chatroom they have ridiculous nick names and talking about bras and panties. That boiled me up. They are all hypocrite and they are losers.

I suggest the only good way to enter into a debate is to start debates on MSN or Yahoo messengers with CHRISTIANS. As they are fools and easy to take them over. That will increase faith and give you a great chance to know the technique of dealing with them.

If you are stuck anywhere then come to the forum and ask .

There is no shortcut to learning debates. You should have patience and knowledge and as Truth is with us , we shall win. Just enter the battlefield.

Good luck

[Umm Sufyaan]

you can fight and shout real loud back, but i think that would be pointless because your in a debate here and trying to get a point across and i think by being angry that doesn't nothing really gets accomplished.
or you can fight fight back, just as 'tough and rough,' but be careful if you do do that, because you will look bad as a muslim, even though the other one is screaming down your thoat:rolleyes:.
or just turn your back and leave because there is simply no point in arguing with people like these.
or just reply as calm, cool and collected as possible. as previously mentioned, that bugs them! and also it may make you look good as a muslim.

does that make sense?

[Qatada]

asalam alaikum


yeh you all giving good points masha Allah and i can see where you two are coming from aswell since i've experienced similar to you in some ways, but i'll just give abit of my feedback in point form.

1) Whenever in debate, ALWAYS have your trust in Allah that you will win. So when you writing down your points, tell Allah (even though He knows) that you're doing it for His sake, so that He should help you in this. This confidence is so important because most of the time its just a debate on who's got the stronger mindset (psyche.) Since you have trust in Allah, confidence that you're on the truth, and since you expect reward from Him - then you should be strong and patient.


2) I always try to think of what the persons thinking, try to make myself a few steps ahead of them when i'm writing up my response.

3) If they swearing or being abusive, i try to treat them with some slight respect[especially if they treat you with respect], but i focus more on telling them that they're acting like a kid if they are acting like one - and that they should be more like an adult, (i say this in a mature way without being abusive, so they feel like they should actually not be abusive.)

So for example, once there was this hindu guy on a forum i was debating in and he had anti-islamic links on his signature, and he made some sneaky remarks against Allah's Messenger. I told him that i had some respect for him before in debate slightly, and that i've lost that respect for him because of what he did. Then he private messaged me after saying that he was sorry, and i said that 'its okay' - but that you remove them links from your signature. He said okay, so that was good for both of us. alhamdulillah :)


4) If they swear too much, and don't benefit from that mature respect idea, then i just ignore them, and tell everyone else in the debate to ignore them aswell. I tell everyone clearly, infront of that persons face 'ignore the person, they're acting like a kid' - and since the person just wants attention anyway, by everyone ignoring them - they either shut up or they start to treat everyone with abit more respect.

However - if everyone else isn't on that same level of respect and they're all abusive, the best thing to do is just to leave them since you can't really benefit them while they're like that. But before leaving them, i usually leave a useful or reliable link [mostly http://islamreligion.com] behind incase someone from among them does feel like wanting to learn (but can't due to peer pressure.)

[sUbMiT_2_uR_CREATOR__]

A.w.b

I think I know what you mean brother Qatada... it actually happened to me today... a brother was asking a question regarding gambling (wont go in the details), rather aggressively & other brothers due to the tone of his voice were a bit taken aback.

Then what I did was I just reasoned with him in a few short sentences very politely & logically & Alhamdulillah it seemed to work.

That's one option I wud recommend: Don't fight fire with fire...but be an example with ur good character.

The other option... fight fire with fire :)

When the person arrogantly denies everything & you feel low & perhaps a tinge doubtful or low this is a technique I STRONGLY RECOMMEND:

Severely threaten the person as a way to instill fear him & to let him know of the impending Doom he will face for his disbelief. I have yet to see hardly any Dawah workers employ this method...& I have used it a few instances in my relatively short Dawah experiences so far.

Not only does it put you on the upper platform, but it instills confidence in you as well & it warns the person of his foolishness.

for eg. use Ayat such as:

“Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allâh is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.” (Ch 4: V56)

“When it (Hell) sees them from a far place, they will hear its raging and its roaring. And when they shall be thrown into a narrow place thereof, chained together, they will exclaim therein for destruction.” (Ch 25: V12-13)

“Verily, the tree of Zaqqûm,
Will be the food of the sinners,
Like boiling oil, it will boil in the bellies,
Like the boiling of scalding water.
(It will be said) "Seize him and drag him into the midst of blazing Fire,
"Then pour over his head the torment of boiling water,
"Verily! This is that whereof you used to doubt!" (Ch 44: V43-48,50)
“They will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom, and theirs will be a lasting torment.”
(Ch 5: V37)

:)

Wassalam

[Abdul-Fattah]

Selam aleykum

Some tips on debating with verbally aggressive/abusive people:

- Don't play by his/her rules
An irrational response can throw people off guard and cool the situation. People probably expect you to react a certain way. A person can be angry or insulting for many reasons. Try to figure out what it is they expect you to do or what their intention was and react in a different way. Not reacting that way might stop them acting the way they were. Not playing can be done by not replying to the opponent directly, but instead to what you suspect is the underlying cause of what he says. However don't overdo it so it doesn't become "avoiding" the issue.
An example of not playing by the rules out of a different situation every guy probably has great fear for the question:
Wife: Do I look fat in these clothes?
Husband: I'm sorry if I didn't give you enough attention lately but you know I love you, right?
Chances are she'll smile and walk away.

- Stay defensive
By this I mean rather then attacking this person's views simply acknowledge his right to have his view, and then go on to stating that you have a different view and invite him to attack your view. The reason for this is that attacking his views will probably enrage him/her even more.
Example:
Atheists says: God doesn't exist
Wrong answer: No you're wrong, he does exist and I'll show you why you're wrong!
Right answer: Well you're entitled to your beliefs, but I belief he does exist, could you show me why I'm wrong?

- Reply with questions as much as possible.
I believe you can make any point simply be asking questions. Although the technique is difficult and time-consuming, you protect yourself from aggression, and rather then convincing a person by defeating his logic, you allow him to make the logical conclusion on his own terms by leading him to it. this is especially so for logical flaws. Rather then exposing them, simply question them.
Example: rather then saying: "You're wrong that's a sweeping generalization!"
say: "Are you sure that if some have that characteristic that all have it then?"

- Expose yourself
Rather then fighting the insults, give your opponent an obvious ground for another insult. Help him insult you, to show that you aren't intimidated by it, it's not doing it's desired effect. All you have to lose is your pride and thats a sin either way.
A: you're stupid
B: yeah, and on top of that I'm also slow so I don't catch on quick, but anyway, would you mind explaining me why I'm wrong all the same?

- Cool the situation down by victimizing yourself.
When a person swears or insults, rather then getting angry, become sad and ask stuff like: "What have I done wrong?" or "I'm only trying to understand why you are so angry." or "Why are you so destructive?" or "You know, that really hurt when you said that." Basically make him see you are just a human person like him. Most people will hold back then and realize they have crossed the line whereas insulting them back will in their minds only justify them.

- Rationize your wins
Don't try to defeat every thing he says, try to agree with as much things as possible. When he says something that is right, tell him explicitly: "yes, that is true". When he says something that is wrong don't go into it unless it's important, stick to the main issue.

- Use humor
When you attempt to diffuse a situation with humor, make sure it's not at your opponent's expense for that would probably fuel him even more. Instead use something that you think he'll be able to laugh with to (something off topic). It doesn't even have to be really witty, just something that shows you have good intentions. If the tension is strong people might even laugh at a lame joke since they will be relieved that the tension dropped a bit. Just remember nothing directed at your opponent or nothing that can be interpreter as provocation

[Pk_#2]

AsalamuAlaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh,

JazakAllah khair, Qatada, Acid, Umm Sufyan, Submit.. & Abd'Fattah.

[salman]

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

what about the Islamic haters? I mean can we like say kind of insulting words due to their ignorance and poor argumentation. I understand that we need to keep our cool but in some cases it is hard to control yourself. Off course, we don't want to go to the extent that we start using abusive language.

[Assad]

I dont believe that we have to go to abusive stance at all. When we see such action. we should warn the person that we will step out of debate if he continues his abusive language . Give him 3 attempts if we persists then leave the debate.

This goes in line with the Orders of Allah that the dawah should only be in constructive atmosphere.

Regards

[Pk_#2]

Originally Posted by Acid

I dont believe that we have to go to abusive stance at all. When we see such action. we should warn the person that we will step out of debate if he continues his abusive language . Give him 3 attempts if we persists then leave the debate.

This goes in line with the Orders of Allah that the dawah should only be in constructive atmosphere.

Regards

AsalamuALaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh,

I agree with that @ Ac..,

By mirroring their actions you would become just as bad as them, when the other person begins to use foul language, it means you have either won this debate or they have run out of things to say which ultimately means you have won the debate as well..

Hmm..Wow we're good Lol.