> Science reasons on pork.

[Abdul-Fattah]

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

I wasn't in the mood to write a science paper since Muslims are never required to back up their claims with objective, neutral scientific evidence...however, here we go:

In the United States, there are an estimated 2 million cases each year of campylobacter jejuni. It's principal vehicles? Poultry and unpasteurized milk. That means CHICKENS, TURKEYS, and COWS.

There are an estimated 1.5 million cases each year of Salmonella sp. It's principal vehicles? Eggs, poultry, beef, pork, and produce. That means CHICKENS, TURKEYS, COWS, PIGS, and FRUIT & VEGETABLES (typically contaminated by animals or humans).

There are an estimated 60,000 cases each year of E.coli. It's principal vehicles? Cattle (handling) and beef, produce, water (recreational and drinking). Do you know what that means? COWS and FRUITS & VEGETABLES and WATER (probably contaminated by animals)

Oh, and Salmonella Enteritidis? It colonizes ovarian tissues of POULTRY and contaminates the internal contents of EGGS.

The prevalence of Campylobacter in manure: 89% prevalence of beef cattle at slaughter and 80 - 100% prevalence (depending on the flock) of chickens and turkeys at slaughter. Sheep also have a very high prevalence. (From a Pitt.edu presentation by Michael P. Doyle, Center for Food Safety - College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, of CDC reports and other official documentation regarding high incidence of food-borne illnesses.)

In the US, more cases of salmonellosis are linked to other foods (e.g, poultry, dairy products, beef) than pork probably because the fear of Trichinella encourages people to more thoroughly cook pork.(From "Salmonella as a Foodborne Pathogen in Pork" by W.E. Morgan Morrow, Dept of Animal Science North Car. State Uni. and Julie Funk, Dept. of Veterinary Preventative Medicine Ohio State Uni.)

If you thoroughly cook your meat (whether it is pork, beef, or poultry) and practice good food safety (hand-washing, proper storage, etc.) then you will greatly reduce your risk of contracting a disease no matter what it is contaminated with.

However, birds and cattle present numerous other diseases to humans that are spread through other methods other than just their meat. Eggs and milk also can spread disease if not properly cooked. Humans do not consume pig milk or pig ova. So, that is an additional avenue of contracting disease.

Birds carry numerous respiratory illnesses that are dangerous to humans. For example, chicken farmers and poultry processing workers are at risk of developing allergic alveolitis and contracting New Castles Disease. And so far, we know of only one prevalent disease that may spread via respiratory from pigs: the swine flu. Well, chickens can carry their own version of the flu: avian influenza, not to mention the other respiratory diseases birds can spread to humans.

And I'm not going to mention the disease spread through feces. Yes, pigs can spread diseases through feces but so can birds. Campylobacteriosis is just one of them.

Since Americans thoroughly cook their pork more often than they do their poultry, it is more likely that you are going to get salmonella from poultry than pork in the U.S. That's why there are so few cases of trich. in the U.S. and new tapeworm diagnosis are usually from Latin American immigrants and not Americans who have eaten American pork products.

Is that enough information for you, salman?

~TheBoxer

If you would have taken the time to read my previous post thoroughly, you should have noticed the flaw in your arguments, even though I didn't spill it out literary. You admit yourself that the diseases correlated to poultry most of which are parasitic or bacterial are easily avoided with some basic hygienic and cooking rules. When it comes to virusses however it's a whole different thing. Virusses spread trough air a lot easier and can easily be contracted just from handling life stock, even when taking hygenic precautions. Therefor animale virusses are a much higher risk. And as I explained only pig viruses are easily transmitable to humans. Avian virusses don't transmit to humans directly under normal circumstances. And that is scientificly proven, not just based on interpretation of statistics or whatever.
You also seemed to completely ignore my point about pig-meat being the worst type of meat for cardiovascular complications, which is still the number 1 cause of death in most countries, and just under 1/3rd of the causes of all deaths globally!

[TheBoxer]

Originally Posted by Acid

Every kind of meat or even vegetable contain diesease and bacterias!! Recent studies suggest the leafy vegetables contain many harmful bacterias which are cause of a number of common dieases and hence their consumption should be in moderation.

But pig exclusively contains many extremely harmful diesease and is raised in an unhygeine environment , being fed on dead pig kids. Now its all common sense but since TheBoxer is anti-common sense, she would find it hard to grasp all this.

I pray to Allah to guide her to sanity first before guiding her to Islam.

I don't know about how things go in other countries, but in America pig farms are inspected just like chicken farms and other animal farms.

I don't think all pig farms feed dead pigs to the live pigs. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. But cannibalism happens in chicken farms too.

Yes ALL foods can be contaminated with harmful bacteria. That is why precautions must be taken with ALL foods whether they be vegetable or animal.

My point is that chicken meat and beef can be contaminated with deadly bacteria just like pork, and the live birds can cause sicknesses in the humans who care for them.

So, to pick on pigs as if they are the most filthy, contaminated animal on this planet is just plain ridiculous.

~TheBoxer

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

If you would have taken the time to read my previous post thoroughly, you should have noticed the flaw in your arguments, even though I didn't spill it out literary. You admit yourself that the diseases correlated to poultry most of which are parasitic or bacterial are easily avoided with some basic hygienic and cooking rules. When it comes to virusses however it's a whole different thing. Virusses spread trough air a lot easier and can easily be contracted just from handling life stock, even when taking hygenic precautions. Therefor animale virusses are a much higher risk. And as I explained only pig viruses are easily transmitable to humans. Avian virusses don't transmit to humans directly under normal circumstances. And that is scientificly proven, not just based on interpretation of statistics or whatever.
You also seemed to completely ignore my point about pig-meat being the worst type of meat for cardiovascular complications, which is still the number 1 cause of death in most countries, and just under 1/3rd of the causes of all deaths globally!

No, RED meat is the worst type of meat for cardiovascular complications. Researchers have proven that lean pork can be part of a healthy diet.

Researchers at Duke University's Sarah Stedman Nutrition Center found that people with high blood levels of cholesterol (hypercholesterolemia) were able to lower total and LDL cholesterol by following a meal plan that included substantial amounts of lean pork. (Lean Pork Helps Reduce Risk of Chronic Disease - BNET - Business Wire, July 23, 1997)

Also, BIRDS are vehicles for VIRUSES AS WELL AS FUNGI. Avian flu, anyone?

So, pigs are no more dangerous than chickens. In fact, if you walk into a chicken farm, there are far more things you can contract by breathing in their air then you would at a pig farm.

~TheBoxer

[Abdul-Fattah]

No, RED meat is the worst type of meat for cardiovascular complications. Researchers have proven that lean pork can be part of a healthy diet.

Oh so you're saying that the fat of pig meat isn't really a problem if you cut out the fat. Lol yeah that makes sense, the same would apply to any other animal meat though.

Also, BIRDS are vehicles for VIRUSES AS WELL AS FUNGI. Avian flu, anyone?

OMG did you even read my previous posts I already replied to that no less then 3 times! Are you blind or something?
HUMANS CAN'T GET AVIAN FLU FROM BIRDS DIRECTLY BUT ONLY TROUGH PIGS AS INTERMEDIATE

Learn to read before posting replies for crying out loud -_-'

[Umm Sufyaan]

@the boxer, we raise chickens (and have done so for as long as i can remember) and although they eat and sleep amongst their feces, they do not actually eat and sleep on their faces. i for one, cannot remember when our chickens have been affected with anything due to this!

its like raising sheep. yes they roam amongst their feces, but eating and sleeping on it? what the heck?!

also, dogs eat their feces and yet people are so adamant on keeping them.

not to mention that farms who do trading with (well-known) companies that sell eggs, let their chicken's roam freely amongst their feces. if it was such a threat, why hasn't such practices been banned. instead, for years, it has been implemented and continues to be....

@salman, your PM got lost through the mail? im yet to receive it.

[TheBoxer]

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

Oh so you're saying that the fat of pig meat isn't really a problem if you cut out the fat. Lol yeah that makes sense, the same would apply to any other animal meat though.

OMG did you even read my previous posts I already replied to that no less then 3 times! Are you blind or something?
HUMANS CAN'T GET AVIAN FLU FROM BIRDS DIRECTLY BUT ONLY TROUGH PIGS AS INTERMEDIATE

Learn to read before posting replies for crying out loud -_-'

First of all, lean meats of all kinds still have cholesterol, but BEEF (even lean beef) is worse than chicken breast or lean pork.

Secondly, HUMANS CAN GET AVIAN FLU DIRECTLY FROM BIRDS. Seriously, where have you been? (And I do read your posts. I usually ignore the unreferenced, blatantly wrong information in the hopes that you will correct it yourself.)

Most cases of avian influenza infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry (e.g., domesticated chicken, ducks, and turkeys) or surfaces contaminated with secretion/excretions from infected birds. The spread of avian influenza viruses from one ill person to another has been reported very rarely, and has been limited, inefficient and unsustained.....During an outbreak of avian influenza among poultry, there is a possible risk to people who have contact with infected birds or surfaces that have been contaminated with secretions or excretions from infected birds. (CDC, "Key Facts About Avian Influenza (Bird Flu) and Avian Influenza A (H5N1) Virus")


---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Umm Sufyaan

@the boxer, we raise chickens (and have done so for as long as i can remember) and although they eat and sleep amongst their feces, they do not actually eat and sleep on their faces. i for one, cannot remember when our chickens have been affected with anything due to this!

its like raising sheep. yes they roam amongst their feces, but eating and sleeping on it? what the heck?!

also, dogs eat their feces and yet people are so adamant on keeping them.

not to mention that farms who do trading with (well-known) companies that sell eggs, let their chicken's roam freely amongst their feces. if it was such a threat, why hasn't such practices been banned. instead, for years, it has been implemented and continues to be....

I have raised chickens as well (terribly smelly things). They poop everywhere. Their nests, their feed trays, their water bowls, their yard. And then you can throw ANYTHING into their troughs and they eat it. Rotten food, eggs, chicken meat, whatever. They're like feathered garbage disposals. They will peck amongst their poop to search for insects, seeds, and any particle of food they can find.

So don't talk to me about the 'cleanliness' of chickens.

And I suppose you've never researched the health risks associated with large-scale chicken farming. I've already provided a list of various diseases humans can develop or contract.

[Umm Sufyaan]

I have raised chickens as well (terribly smelly things). They poop everywhere. Their nests, their feed trays, their water bowls, their yard. And then you can throw ANYTHING into their troughs and they eat it. Rotten food, eggs, chicken meat, whatever. They're like feathered garbage disposals.

looool you are being terribly ridiculous. you have to clean out the chickens coop as well as feed them the right things!

They will peck amongst their poop to search for insects, seeds, and any particle of food they can find.

do you not feed your chickens? usually they peck in the container that their food is placed in...

also there are plenty of animals that run around in garbage and dirt such as worms and ants.

So don't talk to me about the 'cleanliness' of chickens.

errr yes i will because it seems like you need it.

[amar_labedi]

:

Mashallah very need thing
Thanks regards

:

[Abdul-Fattah]

Originally Posted by TheBoxer

First of all, lean meats of all kinds still have cholesterol, but BEEF (even lean beef) is worse than chicken breast or lean pork.

Secondly, HUMANS CAN GET AVIAN FLU DIRECTLY FROM BIRDS. Seriously, where have you been? (And I do read your posts. I usually ignore the unreferenced, blatantly wrong information in the hopes that you will correct it yourself.)

Most cases of avian influenza infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry (e.g., domesticated chicken, ducks, and turkeys) or surfaces contaminated with secretion/excretions from infected birds. The spread of avian influenza viruses from one ill person to another has been reported very rarely, and has been limited, inefficient and unsustained.....During an outbreak of avian influenza among poultry, there is a possible risk to people who have contact with infected birds or surfaces that have been contaminated with secretions or excretions from infected birds. (CDC, "Key Facts About Avian Influenza (Bird Flu) and Avian Influenza A (H5N1) Virus")

I explained the scientific reason behind my claim, that humans can't get the virus directly under normal conditions. You're free to refute it after your bans lift. Just claiming that itis wrong though, based on a single quote that you've taken out of context isn't going to pass here though.

[TheBoxer]

Umm Sufyaan,



As you have explained for us, the farmer chooses what to feed his chickens. This does not, however, negate the fact that chickens will eat crap just like pigs. And as is the case with chicken farmers, pig farmers can choose to feed their pigs a strictly grain and vegetable diet.


Abdul-Fattah,



What I've noticed you doing is making lots of unsubstantiated “scientific” claims. A chicken farm is a “normal condition.” I do not understand what you mean by “not under normal conditions.” A laboratory is not a normal condition. A chicken farm is a normal condition.


According to WebMd, people who come in contact with sick chickens, ducks, or turkeys are more likely to get the virus. Bird flu virus can be pased through bird droppings and saliva. It can also live on surfaces such as cages, tractors, and other farm equipment.


According to the World Health Organization, the vast majority of human cases of H5N1 have acquired their infection following direct contact with infected live or dead poultry...in a few instances, cases have been linked to consumption of dishes made of raw contaminated poultry blood.


Seriously, Abdul-Fattah, where are you getting your information to make the claim that birds don't spread avian influenza to humans under normal conditions? H5N1 is an avian flu. It is a different strain from H1N1 (swine flu). H5N1 does not require pigs as an intermediary. It is spread directly from birds to humans via direct contact with their bodily fluids/secretions. And it is just as likely, if not more so, that CATS would be a bridge between birds and humans for H5N1.

[Assad]

^ She (TheBoxer) is just talking about dead birds or those who have infections or the salvia or droppings of birds... She doesnt understand or chose to deliberately ignore that Muslims dont eat dead or infected birds or their droppings of salvia.

subhanAllah...how these people could pass limits of sanity just for the sake of ''winning'' the argument.

May Allah guide her to Truth.