> Any brief, good refutation against misguded madhabis?

[Tema]

Is there any link that refutes madhabis with simple, logical, brief evidence.

From my observation they are Asharis and Maturidis in aqeedah.

Is there anything that wasn't studied by the four schools, but that today's madhabis follow?

As far as I know, after the four imams, radiAllahu anhum, have died, the students have included views for political reasons.

I'm asking because I'm sick and tired of their remarks and accusations of us being modern.

I really want something logical any layperson would understand, and that is a slap in the face at the same time. They accuse me of following scholars blindly. It is true aldough it doesn't negate anything. Yes, I follow scholars who have done the examination of evidence for me. The four schools were in agreement to their aqeedah and manhaj....they have made errors they will be rewarded for InshAllah. Why don't they accept that they have made errors? How can anyone knowingly follow falsehood?!

It hurts when they say that the '"movement" I follow doesn't have a consensus from other madhabs...Well, it doesn't make sense actually.

The other thing is that when they ask me what is Salafiyyah, I tell them aqeedah and a school of fiqh. Gussed.

The other enemies of mine, are those who worship humans. Okay, they deny that they commit shirk for worshiping Isa (alaihi salam), because, according to them, they worship the god that was in him....
Okay.... what about the saints they worship? Or is this just a particular sect?

I really don't care about other refutations. That they commit shirk should be sufficient. So do they NOT deny that they commit shirk in any worship?

By the way, I have a teacher who speoke about Shariah the whole class period, wallahi, she says that anything not found in Shariah is permitted. This can't be true. She is a feminist and complains about the most minor things! She says we cover because we follow puritan ideas. I guess she is of the view that we all should be naked as animals. I
gave up with her. Or am I obligated to defed Islam? I have, I just make it seem more extreme.


JazzakAllahu Khayr

[Tema]

WOW! I didn't know that the imams:

there are hundreds of narrations from Abu Hanifah and Abu Yusuf indicating that they were clearly upon the way of the Salaf in the affairs of creed. The only thing that can be said is regarding the issue of eemaan (faith), for it is reported from him that he said that eemaan is "tasdeeq" (assent, belief) with the heart and affirmation with the tongue but actions (amal) is outside of the reality of eemaan" - and this is a form of irjaa' (expelling actions from eemaan). However, Abu Ja'far at-Tahawi reports a narration regarding an incident in which a discussion took place between the two Imaams, Abu Hanifah (d. 150H) and Hammaad bin Zayd (d. 179H) which indicates that he returned back from that saying.

Refer to at-Tamheed of Ibn Abdul-Barr (9/247), Sharh at

Imaam Abu Hanifah (d. 150H) and the Splitting and Deviation of the Hanafis After Him Into Diverse Factions and Sects


Okay, the four imams (may Allah, spw, be satisfied with them) were in agreement on their manhaj and aqeedah. Today, people join madhabs, I was one of them, not knowing anything about the aqeedah they ascribe thmselves to. That is how they get people to follow their aqeedah! Yes?

Than WHY do I still come across Muslims, who ascribe thmselves to Salafiyyah, saying that all madhabs are correct? Why not follow one, I thought? Because they are not correct in everything due to these students(innovators) after the imams have died. WHY DO THEY SAY THIS?

If one sticks blindly to a madhab, they do not follow Athaar aqeedah?

They accuse our scholars each making their own itjihad, and that is very confusing for a layperson. Basiclly they are saying that we pick and choose scholars views which is following our whims and understanding of Islam.

Had the students of these imams sticked to these imams? No. Why do the followers of them do these days?
I need help here.

Now I understand my Salafi brothers and sisters for boycotting scholars and advicing us not to take our deen from them, because if they differ on basic stuff, their aqeedah is corrupt.

[al-boriqee]

your whole world from everything you seek to understand to anything you will need to understand later is ALL answered in these four videos explained through a salafi standpoint. After reviewing all four, your whole perception will be clear and you will know exactly what a madhaab actually is instead of having the average biased view of either taqleed OR absolute la madhabness

basic fiqh 1:

BASIC FIQH CLASS #01

BASIC FIQH CLASS #01

basic fiqh 2:

BASIC FIQH CLASS #02

BASIC FIQH CLASS #02

basic fiqh 3:

BASIC FIQH CLASS #03

BASIC FIQH CLASS #03

basic fiqh 4:

BASIC FIQH CLASS #04

BASIC FIQH CLASS #04

secondly, push the deviants to the side and focus on learning beneficial knowledge. Here is one of the best sites to learn beneficial knowledge from a salafi standpoint

http://thefiks.org/elearning/

[salman]

I hope this doesn't confuses you and helps

Bismillah

Originally Posted by Unknown

Is there any link that refutes madhabis with simple, logical, brief evidence.

sister, each case is dealt individually. The main issue with blind math-habis is blind following and sticking to incorrect aqeedah.

Originally Posted by Unknown

From my observation they are Asharis and Maturidis in aqeedah.

no, not all of them. Majority of the people are upon the athari/salafi/hanabli aqeedah.

Originally Posted by Unknown

Is there anything that wasn't studied by the four schools, but that today's madhabis follow?

Allahu A'lam; it depends from which angel you are asking; the mathahaab are always evolving for better. Plus, let's not paint every single person with same brush. Our senior scholars of last century were hanablis i.e., Shaykh ibn Baz, Shaykh ibn Uthaymeen (rahimahumullah). Most of the saudi scholars are hanabli and we take from them.

Originally Posted by Unknown

As far as I know, after the four imams, radiAllahu anhum, have died, the students have included views for political reasons.

First, may Allah be pleased with them is only used for first generation. For rest, we use may Allah have mercy on them. Secondly, this is a hasty generalization and it is not true. Again, it depends on what you are talking about, fiqh or aqeedah

Originally Posted by Unknown

I'm asking because I'm sick and tired of their remarks and accusations of us being modern.

First, most of these math-habi laymen only argue about fiqhi issues or bida'a. They have no clue about differences on issue of imaan, kufr, Allah's Sifaat, Qadr. Most of these are already upon their fitrah; hence, we don't even bring out these aqeedah issues because it may confuse them or corrupt their fitrah due to their attachment to people of bida'a. As far fiqh is concerned, then we have no problem as long as the opinions are not odd or modernist opinions. The fiqh is not an area for laymen to argue because every single one is muqalid of scholars.

If they want to argue about bida'at and aqeedah issues then let them say what they want. If they think they are upon haqq then post them the challenge of shaykh ul-Islam ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullah): bring us something from the hertiage of the salaf to prove your position and if you cannot and you cannot then fear Allah.

Originally Posted by Unknown

I really want something logical any layperson would understand, and that is a slap in the face at the same time. They accuse me of following scholars blindly. It is true aldough it doesn't negate anything. Yes, I follow scholars who have done the examination of evidence for me. The four schools were in agreement to their aqeedah and manhaj....they have made errors they will be rewarded for InshAllah. Why don't they accept that they have made errors? How can anyone knowingly follow falsehood?!

this argument is pretty stupid coming from math-habis. Every single layman blindly follows the scholars and this is what we have been ordered to do. Sister, it is not our job to point out the errors of scholars from different mathahaab because we don't have the tools to do so. The scholars we follow also belong to these four schools. This misconception that salafis don't follow a math-hab or we have a new fiqhi math-hab is a myth created by these math-habis and some of our salafi brothers and sisters, who don't know their fiqh.

Most of the salafis throughout history have been hanablis and shafi'is. Please try to go through these topics when you have a chance, insha'Allah:

What is da'wah Salafiyah?
All about following a Madhab and taqleed

Originally Posted by Unknown

The other thing is that when they ask me what is Salafiyyah, I tell them aqeedah and a school of fiqh. Gussed.

that is not a correct and complete answer. Salafiyyah is to follow the way of the salaf in everything: aqeedah, manhaj, fiqh, actions, behaviour, adab, ikhlaq, etc. It covers everything. Following one of the these aspects doesn't make one salafi.

Originally Posted by Unknown

The other enemies of mine, are those who worship humans. Okay, they deny that they commit shirk for worshiping Isa (alaihi salam), because, according to them, they worship the god that was in him....
Okay.... what about the saints they worship? Or is this just a particular sect?

that's a particular sect in Christianity who worship saints; the Catholics.

Originally Posted by Unknown

I really don't care about other refutations. That they commit shirk should be sufficient. So do they NOT deny that they commit shirk in any worship?

that is shirk in its worst form and they can deny all they want. this is shirk of pagans which was rebuked throughout in the Qur'an.

Originally Posted by Unknown

By the way, I have a teacher who speoke about Shariah the whole class period, wallahi, she says that anything not found in Shariah is permitted.

it depends on what we are talking about. Simple principle in Islam is that everything regarding worship is haraam until proven halal and everything regarding worldly things is halal until proven haraam.

So if she is talking about laws and stuff then she is wrong.

Originally Posted by Unknown

She is a feminist and complains about the most minor things! She says we cover because we follow puritan ideas. I guess she is of the view that we all should be naked as animals. I
gave up with her. Or am I obligated to defed Islam? I have, I just make it seem more extreme.

you approach her in best of manners and try to explain her gently and if she remains persistent then you leave her be as your job is done.

Originally Posted by Unknown

Today, people join madhabs, I was one of them, not knowing anything about the aqeedah they ascribe thmselves to. That is how they get people to follow their aqeedah! Yes?

in a way correct but not entirely. It depends from whom you are taking your fiqh and aqeedah. Many of us (salafis) follow hanabli or shafi'i scholars so we cannot say that following math-habi or math-habi scholars is leading people to incorrect aqeedah. Again sister, your point is based upon this whole misunderstanding that salafis don't follow a math-hab or that we have a separate fiqh.

Originally Posted by Unknown

Than WHY do I still come across Muslims, who ascribe thmselves to Salafiyyah, saying that all madhabs are correct?

becuase they are correct. there are some odd/weak/incorrect opinions here and there but generally speaking they are correct. The thing you need to understand sister is:

1 - Mathahaab have nothing to do with aqeedah. They have to do with fiqh and there is nothing wrong in following any of them. Because at the end of the day we have to follow fiqh and it comes from these mathahaab.

2 - Salafiyyah is not limited to fiqh, manhaj and aqeedah. It encompasses every single aspect of Islam.

Originally Posted by Unknown

If one sticks blindly to a madhab, they do not follow Athaar aqeedah?

nope, that is not true. Athari aqeedah has nothing to do with fiqh or following a math-hab. It is just that people of bida'a hijacked the first three mathahaab. So from there this whole incorrect idea and misconception comes from.

Originally Posted by Unknown

They accuse our scholars each making their own itjihad, and that is very confusing for a layperson. Basiclly they are saying that we pick and choose scholars views which is following our whims and understanding of Islam.

no, we don't. We follow the scholars as they do and as Allah has ordered us to do. And why do they have problem with our scholars making ijtihad?

Originally Posted by Unknown

Had the students of these imams sticked to these imams? No.

yes they did (most of the times) and at other times they made their own ijtihad.

don't worry about these useless bickering and debates. Focus on learning, establishing your basis, correcting your own misunderstandings and improving your adab and ikhlas.

and Allah knows best

[Tema]

May Allah reward you both.

What I know by Ibn Taymeyyah is that it's not acceptable for a person to follow a madhab not knowing and ignoring what is inorrect in it. I'll check on myself to make sure and paste the fatwa on this forum, inshAllah. So telling unknowledgeable people;"They're all correct" is misguidance. We must emphasize the importace to not stick to a madhab to laypeople. You need to tell laypeople that all have something wrong in it and we do not have to mention their mistakes. We do need to make it clear to people that if they accept a madhab, they need to know that anyone who opposes Athaat aqeedah is a kaffir and falls under one of the 72 sects that will enter Hell.

becuase they are correct. there are some odd/weak/incorrect opinions here and there but generally speaking they are correct. The thing you need to understand sister is:

Ibn Taymeyyah says they are not correct on some rulings. I do not rate any ruling here and there, or minor.

in a way correct but not entirely. It depends from whom you are taking your fiqh and aqeedah. Many of us (salafis) follow hanabli or shafi'i scholars so we cannot say that following math-habi or math-habi scholars is leading people to incorrect aqeedah. Again sister, your point is based upon this whole misunderstanding that salafis don't follow a math-hab or that we have a separate fiqh.

We follow madhabS, not a madhab. if we do follow a madhab, we do taqleed (for students of knowledge and higher), or follow the stronger view.

The fiqh is not an area for laymen to argue because every single one is muqalid of scholars.

Agreed. I'd like to know; do you give thesame credit to shyk Al-Albanee?

The scholars we follow also belong to these four schools. This misconception that salafis don't follow a math-hab or we have a new fiqhi math-hab is a myth created by these math-habis and some of our salafi brothers and sisters, who don't know their fiqh.

I beg your pardon. This misconseption you have about Salafis, yes, what many of you label hizbis, created chaos. No Saafi claims such a thing. You calim something, prove it. Sorry, this is where I flame. I am amongs them. They won't utter a word of misconseption, conjecture, and definitely not bid'ah. From their mouth:"We do not follow scholars based on personality, and do not stick to any scholar for such a reason. We follow the Qur'aan and the Sunna." I PROVED YOU WRONG BY PASTING ON IKHWAN THREAD THEM SAYING:" YOU CAN FOLLOW A MADHAB, WHAT YOU CANNOT DO IS STICK TO THEM BLINDLY." Yet, you repeat your misconseption about us.

no, we don't. We follow the scholars as they do and as Allah has ordered us to do. And why do they have problem with our scholars making ijtihad?

Because if each scholar makes his own itjihad, how many differing views will there be? Many. So we follow our desires by picking and choosing fatwas. I guess our scholars make taqleed on the 4 madhabs, not itjihad.

I apologize if I sound bitter.

JazzakAllahu Khayr and brother boureqee, It is always a strenght of ming to be advised to learn about Allah and His Messenger,sall-Allahu alaihi wa sallam. I need to finish my lectures by Saleh as Saleh first .


THANKS BOTH!

[Tema]

I have watched the videos and they are outstanding lectures, very clear.


Brother Salman, on Athaar forum, the brothers are criticizing the same people the lecturer has, under the forum's blog.. Abu Harith says that the way they acted was is the behavior of Kawarij. So why do you still bann their sites? There is even a fatwa on troid that tells us to guad our tounges against the innovators!!!

What is the issue now? If you really want to unite the umma, that isn't how you treat them.