> Sunni Response The Basis for All Deviant Groups and Ideologies

[al-boriqee]

The following viewpoint was developed by me over a period of time over which gave rise to the following implications regarding deviant sects.

The principle I am somewhat formulating is, is that since all deviant sects are usually marked by the thing that identifies them, sort of like what is understood in the west as "special interest". From what I have noticed, every single way of life distinguishes itself with its cause (special interest) and certain characteristics that stem from their cause.

The following principle is
"A thing (issue) upon which a group focuses on and becomes their cause, then such a group are the most disassociated and far removed from that actual cause"

So for example, I will highlight various groups and demonstrate this point

1. Ash'aris- are generally a group whose proclamation is based on the idea of purifying Allah (called tanzih in arabic) from being likened to the creation. This is the basic cause of Ash'arism. However, I have noticed that despite the fact that they are the most loudest among all Muslims for this originally valid principle, they themselves became the very embodiment of religious oddities and viewpoints that stem from likening Allah to the creation. In other words, their over excessive endeavors to ensure tanzih is implemented in the minds of Muslims went to such an extent that when they formatted their entire theology, the basis of their theology actually operates within the absence of tanzih.

2. Sufis- generally are a group whose ultimate goal was originally to purify the soul from the depraved ego of man. However, depsite of this cause upon which they are known by (through their claim), they have become the most spiritually corrupt. This is why I fully comprehend and agree that when Alaamah Abu Bakr al-Jazaa'iree said that
"Sufism begins with dhikr and ends with kufr", then I understand why this comment was made.

3. The Khawaarij- In todays time they are marked with three distinct attributes, and all three are proven unworthy within their context

A. the proclamation of knowing current affairs to the extent of accusing Muslims of either being stagnant, stupid, and even questioning a person's Islam over being ignorant of some warped education or understanding they received to begin with. Yet, after assessing their case, I have noticed they are the most ignorant fools on earth with regards to how current affairs is articulated, and more importantly, politics.
B. Jihad- they are the loudest callers to their warped version of jihaad, yet none of whom actually have gone out to fight. I know I couldn't or wouldn't trust not one of them to get my back on the actual battlefield. Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldn't even entrust them with a fly of mine, much less myself on the field. On this point, I cherish what one of my friends who was actually in jihad when he criticized modern groups who resorted to merely killing other muslims and performing suicide operations, he said
"Im a man, when I fight, I face armies" and this is the prophetic manhaj in Jihad warfare.
C. Ruling by Allah and the ruling by other than Allah- And of all of these issues, this has to be the cream of the crop of them all. They are the loudest of those who call for government to rule by the rule of Allah yet
1. are the most ignorant of what the rule of Allah is
2. They themselves rule by the rule of other than Allah thereby making them kaafirs according to their own principle
3. restrict this principle to only those in authority and excluding this principle for everyone since the verse begins with "mann" i.e. WHOEVER


4. Muqalidoon- this group is based on the cause that everyone MUST adopt a madhaab and there are varying levels of this sect, the most fiercest of which is making takfir for whoever does not follow a madhaab. Yet, despite this effort, they are of those who are MOST REMOVED from the actual madhaab of their Imaams and the original followers within each respective madhaab.

5. The Murjia- And this heresy resides within the modernist and progressive cult. These progressives and modernist have a number of distinct features.
A. The use of the mind-the most noticeable attribute with which characterizes them is their filthy understanding of promoting the use of intellectual reasoning. They promote this in a style as if implicitly stating that implementing Islam entails a lack of brain use and that we need to wake up and smell the coffee as they say. In other words, they are the loudest of ALL of the groups who proclaims that the Muslim adopts "reason" and "their minds" to reach the truth as if following the Qur'an and Sunnah will not reach to the truth. Yet, with all of my discussions with them, they have proven to be the most bankrupt of all groups regarding using their minds, brain power, and the overall implementation of reason. They are the loudest to yell out reason and yet are the most deplete of those who can reason. I have found that their minds are so full of mush that they are nothing more than bodies that has become worthless for humanity.

B. "tolerance"- the second most defining feature common with this cult is that they are the loudest of all groups among the Muslims who side with secularists and atheist regarding tolerance. Everything is tolerance. tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. Yet, I have found that in actuality, what their tolerance really entails is
"tolerance for kufr and intolerance for emaan" because they always wish to shove down our throats to be tolerant, yet are intolerant regarding our views. So its a game of double standards in the world of spin.

The reason why I have classed them as Murjia because they are the only group within all of Islam who have virtually separated the acts of faith from actions and speech from faith. It is they who came up with murjized statements like
"the real hijab is in the heart"
and
"What matters is what is in the heart"
and other flimsy heretical statements like this which they like to use to justify their intentional abandonment of Islamic actions.

6. Haddadees/Ghulaat (super salafis, madkhalis,) are most distinguished with the attribute of declaring everyone a hizbi. Everything is a hizbi. Hizbi this, Hizbi that. Even inanimate objects become hizbis (rhetoric). They like to warn against hizbiyyah and hizbi, yet they have become the most perfect model of hizbism in Islam. There is no other group who matches the hizbiyyah of these haddadee hizbis. They are so hizbi that they make the ikhwaan not look like a hizb.

[abdulrahman al muhajir]

Productive article just needs more elaboration of people who actually fit into these deviant groups

[al-boriqee]

that is not the point of it all

the point and real importance that brings benefit to Muslims is to highlight characteristics and then when such characteristics are expressed within various people, then you know how you have to respond to them (or not to respond depending on who it is) Islamically.

[Umm Sufyaan]

i want to advice you akhee not to start pointing out groups and all until and unless you have the backing of a reputable scholar to do so becuase it just sticks and suddenly we find everyone calling everyone else something and the ikhtilaaf just sky rockets :(

[al-boriqee]

I remember Shaykh Ali al-Halabee stated one time that how people of misguidance are marked and known is that they merely focus on that thing (issue) that gets their engine going (this is my american lingo of his words so bear with me).

I was merely highlighting that those things (issues) which such deviants partake in, even though they are the loudest of those who profess those issues, in reality they are the most ignorant, non practitioners of those issues that they originally stress about, thus making them bankrupt.

thats all. As fo the actual issues that were highlighted, these are things that were already attested to by the shiyookh. Im merely molding what they said and my experience together in one here.

barakallahu feek for the reminder, I will try to remember this as a model

[Tema]

Respected brother, Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatu Allah wa barak atuh

What kind of a Salafi are you? I do not get it and I need help! So the "madhkalis" have a problem and they are Salafis. Alhamdulillah. But do you take from shaykh Halabee and the other one, fogot his name. I am sorry. You have explained this before but I do not know which tribe to go to.

Look. I'll set aside my emotions.

The super Salafis, have been on Athaar and they respect anyone however have shown some enmity to me as I openly supported jihad there. What kind? I have read that Muslims defeating the kuffar when they attack their lands in permissible. How is is permissible was not included.

I must admit I do love the Taliban. They are attacked by the kuffar.

I no longer believe the ruler in KSA is a kaffir, not that I completely believed that before. I know how terrible this "I believe" sounds.

Sorry to make this personal. I support the Taliban. Yet I am a Salafi who respects our shaykhs. However, why didn't they support the Taliban and those who were attacked?

I do take everything from fatwas, but my emotions and logic is sound! Not that the fatwas are not. The Taliban, how would they defend themselves?

I completely accept the way of the Salaf. What I do not accept are terrorist etting reported and that is for certain!

Where do I fall under is my question? Are you a Sooruri, Qutbi? What am I?

3. The Khawaarij- In todays time they are marked with three distinct attributes, and all three are proven unworthy within their context

A. the proclamation of knowing current affairs to the extent of accusing Muslims of either being stagnant, stupid, and even questioning a person's Islam over being ignorant of some warped education or understanding they received to begin with. Yet, after assessing their case, I have noticed they are the most ignorant fools on earth with regards to how current affairs is articulated, and more importantly, politics.
B. Jihad- they are the loudest callers to their warped version of jihaad, yet none of whom actually have gone out to fight. I know I couldn't or wouldn't trust not one of them to get my back on the actual battlefield. Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldn't even entrust them with a fly of mine, much less myself on the field. On this point, I cherish what one of my friends who was actually in jihad when he criticized modern groups who resorted to merely killing other muslims and performing suicide operations, he said
"Im a man, when I fight, I face armies" and this is the prophetic manhaj in Jihad warfare.
C. Ruling by Allah and the ruling by other than Allah- And of all of these issues, this has to be the cream of the crop of them all. They are the loudest of those who call for government to rule by the rule of Allah yet
1. are the most ignorant of what the rule of Allah is
2. They themselves rule by the rule of other than Allah thereby making them kaafirs according to their own principle
3. restrict this principle to only those in authority and excluding this principle for everyone since the verse begins with "mann" i.e. WHOEVER

Forgive my lack of understanding. I do have a hard time understanding all advanced speech. I do question a lot an dhave talked to a brother [on a forum] who caught my attention in what he believs yet is a Salafi. He claims that thi sis doubtful to him [suicide bombing]. He di dnot call them ignorant, rather said that who is he to criticize someone who may be fighting for Allah's sake, but he is sat at home.

These are emotions. How can you go against the believers?! How much are they different to us?! Hijjrah is obligatory.

I have to be a Salafi, but I love the Taliban!

who call for government to rule by the rule of Allah yet

Forgive this ana salafi but hasn't Osama bin Laden done more good than these rulers of ours? Well, both of them do kill Muslims but Osama kailled the kuffar...we do not look like losers at least.

What do they do? Help the Muslims in Afghanistan.

Look, this is ignorance. I am captured and have to take a side on something I need evidence for that is not given..... because our beleivers are believers!!!!! I know ther eis a correct way. I am not brainwashed nor after anything due to a shaykh.

Hope your reply is relevent. Or that you see the errors in my views that contradict salafiyyah. Can I still be a Salafi? Tell me about the other group.

[salman]

Ukhtee, the important thing is to follow the way of the Salaf and not worry about labels. Stop worrying about all this "which group is right salafi and which one i should follow". Obsession with labels only leads to hizbiya and this is what happened to some of our brothers & sisters (super salafis aka madkhalis). Following the way of the Salaf means that we follow their way in every aspect: belief and actions. And just because someone is mistaken in one or two matters, it doesn't mean the person is not "salafi" anymore. We take good from everyone and advise them about their mistakes.

There is nothing wrong with loving & supporting the mujahideen who are fighting the kuffaar to defend our lands, our deen and honor of Muslims. We could disagree with their methods (targeting civilians, suicide bombing) but this doesn't mean that everything they are doing is wrong. What we need is balance.

As far the issue of rulers and "ruling by other than the laws of Allah" then we need to understand that Allah said "whoever" which means Allah Ta'ala is also addressing us and not only those who are in authority. All you need to do is learn about the issue, understand it and stop at that. There is no need for labels, arguments, refutations etc.

Remember there are different extremes and we need to stay away from those extremes and adopt the middle way:

1) Extreme # 1: Being obsessed with "who is on the manhaj of salafiyyah and who is not"

2) Extreme # 2: Being obsessed with issue of jihad and rulers

3) Extreme # 3: Being obsessed with appeasing the kuffaar: altering the deen, selling out

قَالَ إِمَامُ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَمَاعَةِ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ حَنْبَلٍ رَحِمَهُ اللهِ:
أُصُولُ ٱلسُّنَّةِ عِنْدَنَا ٱلتَّمَسُّكُ بِمَا كَانَ عَلَيْهِ أَصْحَابُ رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ صَلَّىٰ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَٱلْإِقْتِدَآءُ بِهِمْ، وَتَرْكُ ٱلْبِدَعِ، وَكُلُّ بِدْعَةٍ فَهِيَ ضَلَالَةٌ، وَتَرْكُ ٱلْخُصُومَاتِ، وَٱلْجُلُوسِ مَعَ أَصْحَابِ ٱلْأَهْوَآءِ، وَتَرْكُ ٱلْمِرَآءِ وَٱلْجِدَالِ وَٱلْخُصُومَاتِ فِي ٱلدِّينِ

The Imaam of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, Ahmad Bin Hanbal (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

the basic principles of the Sunnah which we have are: to stick to what the companions of Allah's messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) were on, and follow their example, and leave the innovations, and every innovation is a misguidance, and leave the quarreling and sitting with those who follow their whims, and leave the doubting, arguing and quarreling in the deen

Please also have a look at these posts: 1, 2

And Allah knows best

[Abd al-Muhsin al Hindy]

Respected brother, Assalamu Alaykum wa rahmatu Allah wa barak atuh

What kind of a Salafi are you? I do not get it and I need help! So the "madhkalis" have a problem and they are Salafis. Alhamdulillah. But do you take from shaykh Halabee and the other one, fogot his name. I am sorry. You have explained this before but I do not know which tribe to go to.

Just a Muslim, and if you are specifically then I am a just a Salafi, those so-called "types: of salafis are mere myths.There are no types of Salafis either you are Salafi or you aren't , yeah some salafi have mistakes some don't , but that does not take them out of Salafiyyah.I think bro Salman very well put the things in place.

I must admit I do love the Taliban. They are attacked by the kuffar.

What about the millions of Muslims killed by these Shirkiyyah, Maturidiyyah/Ashariyyah Sufiyyah Talibanis? I hate these people for their Dhulm on Muslims.Do you know, that one of the commanders of the 'Mujahideen'(during the war with soviets), Shaikh Jameel ur-Rehmaan, an Afghan scholar upon the way of the Salaf, managed to establish an Islamic emirate in the Kunar province, where the sharee'ah was established and the huge problem of drug cultivation was taken care of - But the sheikh was assassinated, and his emirate destroyed and massacred by talibanis, for being a Salafi!Or for what , land? And people call these Talibanis "Mujahideen"! Talibanis are hardcore Hanafi -Sufis , many of them will call you a Kaafir because you are a "LaMadhhabi"(don't follow a Madhhab from the 4) according to them!

Forgive this ana salafi but hasn't Osama bin Laden done more good than these rulers of ours? Well, both of them do kill Muslims but Osama kailled the kuffar...we do not look like losers at least.

Nope, Usamah created problems for this Ummah which will remain for centuries if not more.Killing Kuffar isn't the way, winning Kuffar is the way.We look like losers,because of Usamah , had he not done all these things Muslims could have lived a more easy life , especially those living in non-Muslim countries.Take India, here any Muslim is picked up by the police or Indian Army up his wife is raped and then burned alive, and he is shot and labeled as "terrorist"! This the gift of Usamah for Muslims, it wasn't like this always, we are facing this due to the nasty filthy devil named Usamah.

Also , sister do you know how much money the Saudi King puts into Dawah? Just goggle it and you'll realize who has done how much.


Talibanis are not fighting for Islaam but they are fighting for themselves ,and their claim of land.We support Afghanistan but not Talibanistan.We are for Islaam and not SUFISM and SHIRK. Shuyookh have always supported Afghanistan, but what can they do when there are devils like Taliban.Taliban never fought against grave worship, saint worship, they never fought against corruption in fact they promoted all such things.Those people who usually love Afghanistan hate Taliban, for their actions and the consequences of it.

Forgive my lack of understanding. I do have a hard time understanding all advanced speech. I do question a lot an dhave talked to a brother [on a forum] who caught my attention in what he believs yet is a Salafi. He claims that thi sis doubtful to him [suicide bombing]. He di dnot call them ignorant, rather said that who is he to criticize someone who may be fighting for Allah's sake, but he is sat at home.

I don't know this Guy, but I am sure that he knows not nick about what he is talking.Fighting for sake of Allaah? Naaudhobillah, how can some one claims that Taliban/al-Qaeda are fighting for Allaah Azz wa Jall(I think that's what he meant correct me if I am wrong).And all those stuff about sitting home and talking seems pretty cool but in factuality , bin laden was comfortably living with his wives in a huge bungalow! And here Muslims , in non-Muslims country fear going out , as they are targets of "police" and other forces, these forces just need a pretext to detain you and commit horrible crimes against you and you family. Muslims living under non-Muslim government have a tougher life than that of the so-called "Mujahideen" who live in mountains freely, kill those whom they want and then give blow themselves up, where as Muslims in non-Muslim societies live under fear, are looked upon as terrorists, made fun of!Someone said something very correct about life - Ending your life is easier than living your life.

I have to be a Salafi, but I love the Taliban!

They'll hate you for being a "Salafi" and infact according to many you'll be a labeled a "Kaafir".Do you watch news, watch news about Pakistan, and every other day you'll see they(taliban) blow up a Masjid some times 100 sometimes 200 and so on are dead.Long time back , I thought Taliban were very bad , but they loved their country ,but that was a mistake, they don't love anyone except their whims.

What kind? I have read that Muslims defeating the kuffar when they attack their lands in permissible. How is is permissible was not included.

Yeah, but killing, Muslims? Taliban has killed millions of Muslims and few thousands of Kuffar! Who are they fighting against? Also , I think the war is over, Afghanistan has a Muslim government(thought Pathetic).

Where do I fall under is my question? Are you a Sooruri, Qutbi? What am I?

Well, I would never ask such a question to anybody, except a Shaykh.I am nobody to label you with anything, but I think you are a very good "Salafi", infact even better than many, with lot of Ilm , as you have the desire to follow truth no matter what.You should concentrate on acquiring Ilm and not waste time on such useless issues.

"Seek the TRUTH, and you'll find it's men."

I think , you should simply follow the Qur'an , Sunnah and way of Salaf as-Saliheen. And Inshaa'Allaah you'll yourself realise those who are upon truth and those who aren't.Why are you trying to determine that "What am I" when you know that you are a Salafi.And I personally don't find any reason for you not being Salafi, as for your love for Taliban then its based upon misinformation.Also if you really , think that you need know whether you are a Salafi or not you should ask , a Salafi Aalim.(And I guess , he will give you the same reply, as most will)

Lastly, I really like your love for truth, I wish Muslim girls in India were like you, hence don't get misguided once you have been guided by Allaah Azz wa Jall, I know numerous parents who wish their daughters would be something like you, so don't let the guidance slip away, you have something which millions lack.

Wallahu Aalam.

[al-boriqee]

my first advise to you sister is stop trippin, especially over nonsense. when I get a chance inshallah i will tell you. it is not all that important.

[Tema]

Originally Posted by Umm Sufyaan

i want to advice you akhee not to start pointing out groups and all until and unless you have the backing of a reputable scholar to do so becuase it just sticks and suddenly we find everyone calling everyone else something and the ikhtilaaf just sky rockets :(

I do not like all this attention and I know the kindness is for the sake of daw'ah, jazzakAllahu kahyrI have a lot to say to each of what you brothers said, but it is not so important. ") Extreme # 3: Being obsessed with appeasing the kuffaar: altering the deen, selling out'I fall under this one. I mean, I attack people who please others during daw'ah sometimes, and I would attack anyone even in mesjid for example just because they say something wrong....I believe I protect the deen this way. I will argue against this, if someone opposes me. Unless they just claim you have to have good manners duing it and so forth. However, I am clear and do speak my mind out, as well as critical of how others oppose Islamic teachings through their way of dressing, etc... Resool, sall-Allahu alayhi wa salam, was too, in fact, he cursed some. I speak out things what most conceal. Why? I answered that. I do belong, based on this to extreme Salafiyyah. I have no knowledge of what "they" do, eather groups. I judge them by their actions, and what they preach. I have no knowledge when it comes to the political part of Salafiyyah and other more "extreme" groups. I like shaykh Rabee, because I have no reason to dislike him. Why don't we throw out his wrong stuff and keep the goods by him?As for Taliban, you never mentioned the good ones brother. The ones who believe in our aqeedah, and live a poor life. I obviously do not like the ones who are on different aqeedah.Oh well...