> Sunni Response Where is Allah: Hanabli Butcher + Blind Taqleed + Ash'aris/Maturidis

[salman]

:

Sunni response to blind muqalids (followers) of madhab and people of bidah (innovation - Ash'aris/Maturidis) in regard to where is Allah. The hanabli dumb butcher argument has finally burried the heretics to the ground. This argument has gained popularity in past week or so on IA and Multaqa forums. I posted on Multaqa and let me share it here as well. This argument was initially put forward by our good brother Harris Hammam (on IA) to point out inconsistency in deobandis' aqeedah and manhaj.

I've to say without any exaggeration that it is the best argument (in my opinion) to deal with the heretics (those who oblige complete taqleed of a fiqhi madhab and Ash'arism/Matruridism on lay people) because it leads them to choose one of the two: 1) either fiqhi madhab or 2) aqeedah madhab. Let's read what brother Harris has to say:

Originally Posted by Haris Hammam

DEOBANDI INTERNAL INCONSISTENCY #15 - THE DUMB HANBALI BUTCHER SCENARIO

Imam Ahmed said: He should point to the sky [before slaughter as a substitute to Tasmiyah]. (Masaa'il al-Imam Ahmed Wa Ishaq bin Rahuyah Riwaayat Ishaq bin Mansur al-Marwazi)

Ibn Qudaamah said: ... to show that he intends to slaughter in the Name of He who is in the heaven... (Al-Mughni)

This is just one fiqhi issue, but it has two aspects related to it that are crucially fundamental in Deobandism which they need to see for themselves, becaus ethey are at a direct collision with each other:

1) As Mathabistic Taqleed would suggest, the Deo must advise him to point to the sky before slaughter to legalise the meat according to the Hanbali school of law

2) But as Maturidism would suggest, the very same Deo must advise him not to point to the sky before slaughter, as doing so is tantamount to Tajseem and therefore Kufr

The Hanaabilah who devised this mas'alah had only one thing in mind - that by pointing, it is meant Allah being up above in the heaven is meant, as Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni. This is the Tafseer of the Hanaabilah of their own Hanbali Fiqh. Besides, they are more aware of Hanbalism just like Hanafis are more aware of Hanafism. So ever says anything else in the Tafseer of this mas'alah should keep it to himself.

The point is: should the Deo sacrifice his Mathabistic Taqleed and advise the dumb butcher not to point? Or should he sacrifice his Maturidism and advise the dumb butcher to point?

It has been centuries since the Ahl al-Bid'ah (people of innovation - Ash'aris/Maturidis) have been accusing Ahlus Sunnah, specifically the hanaabilah (plural of hanabli), of tajseem and kufr in regard to where is Allah. Ash'aris/Maturids say that we make tajseem when we say Allah Ta'ala is above the heavens; hence, by their understanding the hanabli scholars are endorsing kufr in their fiqh and the dumb hanabli buthcers are following kufr.

once again, Jazak Allah khar brother Harris for his input. As it was very well pointed out by our good brother, al-boriqee:

Originally Posted by al-boriqee

This is the baddest thread on the planet

this should not only be a sticky, but a hujjah sticky for all time.

EVERY kalaamist (ash'ari, maturidi, non athari) should answer this question before going about reading the rest of the forum. If they fail to answer it, then they are not worth our time or our replies, plain and simple.

May Allah Ta'ala make use adhere to the correct aqeedah and save us from the people of bid'ah, ameen.