> Muslim Response Refuting Trinity: Analogies and Textual Evidence

[Sensationnz]

sallam

akhi i cant see the website.. is A n swering Islam . com?

wsallam

[Ibrahim Rasheed]

Originally Posted by SilverLJ

I have never heard any of these used as an analogy for the idea of the trinity and it seem an absurdity to me to refute an analogy as by its very nature it is not some kind of proof. Its a way to try to illustrate or throw some light on the idea - analogies are not proofs so there is nothing to refute, they may be good analogies or bad ones but that is all; they neither confirm or deny the trinity.

If we are to find the doctrine of te trinitry we find it in the Bible not by any analogy no matter how powerful its seems

Here is one such analogy I heard recently: there are three candles lighting this room but but there is only one light.

What happens when one candle fickers out?? The other two supports the light but ofcourse it dimms. The power of light is not equal without the flickered candle. This means that God is not one but three makes one God. If any is missing the God is not complete??? What an idea. Sure the inventor of such ideas needs a mental institute.

[Dr. Ejaz]

Refuting Trinity

Most of the articles present in this section have been taken from unitarian websites that refute the notion that the Biblical Jesus taught the concept of the Trinity. Even though those websites also claim that Paul didn't teach the trinity, I do not hold to this view. I only hold to the view that Jesus in the Gospels did not teach it. Thus, I have not included their arguments trying to prove that Paul did not preach the divinity of Jesus. Basaam Zawadi

Brother Zawadi is correct in NOT agreeing with these unitarian websites
when they are teaching that Paul did NOT teach the Triune GOD.
Because of their ridiculous position on Paul's doctrine, they are hereby disqualified.

Would someone like to see 15+ verses where Paul teaches
... just for example: JESUS IS EQUAL TO FATHER GOD.
(I believe there are fewer than 10 verses showing the Holy Spirit being part of the Godhead.)

Why does brother Zawadi refer to these websites when the people in charge:
a) can't read
b) are morons
c) are greatly deceived
OR
d) are all of the above?

[IslamicReplies]

Originally Posted by armandawahchannelislam

I am currently on a message board with some christians who are inventing the idea of trinity as 1x1x1=1 rather than 1+1+1=1 (incorrect) to justify their notion of trinity.

A possible (but not plausible) way to response to the anology: In this equation: (1 x 1 x 1), all the attributes of each entity are the same, but with the trinity, they are not:

Examples:

1) God is all-knowing (1 John 3:20) but Jesus was not (Mark 13:32).
2) God cannot be seen (Exodus 33:20) but Jesus was seen (John 1:29).

But even with possible response, you can't compare this mathematical equation with the trinity, because it implies Father x Son x Holy Spirit (or: Divine x Divine x Divine), which is not possible, since the Christians believe the Son has attributes contradictory to the Divine, making the analogy false.

[IslamicReplies]

Originally Posted by SilverLJ

Here is one such analogy I heard recently: there are three candles lighting this room but but there is only one light.

1) The reason why it's a false analogy, is because it is implying what the 3 candles provide, not what they are. It would be like saying: each Father, Son & Holy Ghost are 3, but there is only 1 will. To apply the doctrine of the trinity to the candle example, it would be like saying: there are 3 entities (candles), and these 3 are 1.

Even if we use this wrong analogy with the trinity...

2) If you add a 4th candle, the light would be greater. Applying the same analogy to trinity, a 4th entity to the trinity would make God greater, which no Christian would agree with.

3) With only 1 candle, the amount of light you have is less greater than more candles. Applying the same analogy to trinity, if only 1 entity of the trinity exists (i.e. Father) that would mean God is less greater than if there were more entities. No Christian would agree with this, proving the analogy is a wrong one.

[Dr. Ejaz]

AN EXPLANATION OF WHO JESUS REALLY WAS

GOD, angels, and demons are "spirit beings".
Spirit beings are able to go anywhere ... while not being seen by humans.
They are able to enter humans and "take up residence" there.
GOD's angels are fully capable of doing this, but I believe they never do.
Satan's angels (evil spirits, demons) have been doing it for years.

People call Jesus "the GOD-man", which hints that He was part GOD and part man.

The GOD part of Jesus was a spirit being who came down from heaven,
and took up residence inside of a baby who was given the name of "Jesus".

That’s why people say:
JESUS was NOT "fully" a man … and … JESUS was NOT “fully” GOD.
If GOD had been living inside of you for 33 years,
could you say that you were just another human being?

When Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28),
He meant during His time on earth when He was in a man’s body.

This was a very special case ... and GOD certainly had His reasons for doing it.
And His reasons were fully and totally logical and understandable, and pure genius.

In 70+ verses, the Bible says this very special spirit being actually is GOD,
is equal to Father GOD, is the Creator, is the Giver of eternal life, etc.
The Bible says that Almighty GOD is comprised of 3 “Persons” in 1 GOD.
Totally incomprehensible, right?

The Bible also says that Jesus' gospel is “foolishness” to most people.

Perhaps you’d like to know why this incomprehensibility and foolishness is okay with GOD?
More than just "okay" actually ... He planned it all that way.
Sorry, but ...

[Abdul-Fattah]

This is all just speculation without proof. This is not what the classical dogma says, this is not what the churches have been saying for centuries, this is not what is seen in the bible. You're just re-interpreting things because you desperately need to make them "work".

[Dr. Ejaz]

Originally Posted by Abdul-Fattah

This is all just speculation without proof. This is not what the classical dogma says, this is not what the churches have been saying for centuries, this is not what is seen in the bible. You're just re-interpreting things because you desperately need to make them "work".

Okay, that's fair enough.
Is this the information that you are referring to?

GOD, angels, and demons are "spirit beings".
Spirit beings are able to go anywhere ... while not being seen by humans.
They are able to enter humans and "take up residence" there.
GOD's angels are fully capable of doing this, but I believe they never do.
Satan's angels (evil spirits, demons) have been doing it for years.

Or what specifically are you are referring to?

[Hassan_Abd_Allah]

I dont understand why the admins/moderators of this forum are still tolerating Dr. Ejaz, what he is doing is nothing but outright preaching, which goes against the rules of the forum.

[Haqekka']

The human genius is this what we,the Christians call Holy Spirit,one of the avatars of God.

What is that???