> Questions to Bamboozle Christians! (Ones I Made Up)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ you mean how do you reply to something which makes no sense? :| indeed i dont know either

what they are trying to say is that God can peel himself off and become other entities.

[salman]

Originally Posted by Umm Sufyan

jazakallahu khair @islamiclife.

how do you respond when they say that the trinity is like an orange: i.e you have the peel, the orange itself and the skin...those three parts make the one orange. :confused:

Wa'alaykum As-Salam sister

Barak Allahu feeke, what I wrote earlier isn't a complete refutation but at least we can tell them that their analogy is wrong.

Now as far concerning the orange analogy, again it doesn't completely follow the trinity theory. This is what trinity means, more or less:

There are three distinct persons, the father and the son and the holy ghost, but they are all divine so they are one. The son is not only divine but he is also human which is itself contradictory. A person cannot be created and uncreated at the same time.

So now if apply the orange analogy, it is a complete failure. Yes, one may argue that three part of orange makes an orange but each part itself isn't orange, here each part being divine fails; remember the definition of trinity. If you say that skin is part of orange then it isn't distinct but if you say that it is distinct part then skin isn't orange. Also, remember that the son holds an attribute which is not part of orange or orange itself. The attribute isn't even define within the limits of orange since it's completely the opposite of it. So however, you look at it, the analogy fails.

One other analogy which they commonly use the time theory: Past, Present, Future; meaning three different time periods but one time line.

Again, this fails pretty badly and it's hard to believe they can come up with such hopeless analogies. Let's recall trinity again: The father and the son and the holy spirit. So here we have, the past and the present and the future existed at the same time. If i recall, this is impossible, unless they go by a different common sense. Again, son holds a property which isn't defined by the limits of time line. Even if present is a different period but it is still a time line, it cannot be something else. One other way to look at this what I mentioned above about orange: each part is distinct but it is part of whole thing, time line in this case, each part itself isn't the whole thing; being part of something doesn't mean you are the whole thing.

In all these analogies, orange, family, egg, time line etc. the base ground is the same or part of the whole thing yet each person in the trinity is completely distinct. I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

[Assad]

:

Thats a good question . The answer to as easy as the explicit stupidity in the logic.

In the Orange example which they say is like a trinity , we can answer this as follows:

They say just like Orange have a peel , orange and you which makes an orange

I agree that they are 100% correct in this logic but what they are saying is false because they are saying is that

Orange peel IS an Orange
The one who is peeling IS an Orange
The Orange itself IS an Orange.

The orange peel is not an orange itself. If I say to go an eat an orange will you go to eat the peel or the orange??

They have separate qualities :

Orange peel is NOT AN ORANGE
We are NOT an ORANGE
Orange IS AN ORANGE.

Then they will say that " okay but all those 3 elements make a single orange all things are part of an orange there fore son is god and holy ghost is god and god is god"

Another way is that they say that :

In a Family There is a Father , a mother , a son. All are 3 different person yet form a single family. Thats like trinity.

Thats totally agreed! But Christians say that :

A father in a family IS A FAMILY
A mother in a family IS A FAMILY
a son in a family IS A FAMILY!

means 3 Families!

Like in a family there are 3 different person with distinct roles , we can say that in a family a Father is a God , A mother is a mother and not a God and a Son is the son and not a God. Now we can say that these are a part of a family.

Regards

Originally Posted by Umm Sufyan

jazakallahu khair @islamiclife.

how do you respond when they say that the trinity is like an orange: i.e you have the peel, the orange itself and the skin...those three parts make the one orange. :confused:

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

^ you mean how do you reply to something which makes no sense? :| indeed i dont know either

what they are trying to say is that God can peel himself off and become other entities.

[Umm Sufyaan]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim

^ you mean how do you reply to something which makes no sense? :| indeed i dont know either

what they are trying to say is that God can peel himself off and become other entities.

good point! i didnt think of it like that. In that case then it means that god is able to contract diseases, as fruits do. not to mention die amoungst other things. Why beseech something which is unable to defend itself against something that is practically minute.

Originally Posted by islamiclife

Wa'alaykum As-Salam
I don't know what kind of answers you got but they justify 1+1+1 = 1 by saying that we are not applying addition rule but boolean algebra in which the sign "+" stands for "OR". So the equation becomes the father Or the son or the holy spirit = either one of them. This is completely wrong for couple of reasons:
1) The tirinity isn't "OR" function but "AND" function since it says the father and the son and the holy spirity. How can it be trinity if it is only one of them holds the condition which we apply on him.
2) the number 1 in boolean algebra isn't the actual number 1. In boolean algebra 1 represnts true. It tells whether something holds a certain condition or not. For example, if I say are the three members of trinity different people, so the equation will become
the father the son the holy spirit
1 . 1 . 1 = 1
The dot denotes "AND" in boolean algebra. If two of three members were same then it will be 0.0.1 = 0.

anyway, I attend to write a complete article on this sometime later on, insha'Allah.

and at using mathematics to explain a matter of creed just really explains how odd the concept of trinity is to grasp. i mean isn't creed something that's supposed to be simple? shouldnt creed be explained and understood with just basic common sense. i mean if one cannot understand it using common sense, than what hope does he/she have if its explained using otherwise.why go beyond that? and what if one has never heard of Boolean algebra. the heck man, this is the first ive heard of it *embarrassed*


jazakumuallahu khair.

[salman]

Originally Posted by Umm Sufyan

good point! i didnt think of it like that. In that case then it means that god is able to contract diseases, as fruits do. not to mention die amoungst other things. Why beseech something which is unable to defend itself against something that is practically minute.

Wa'alaykum As-Salam

actually, what you are saying is incorrect because they are simply using an analogy to explain the concept of trinity. If they say the God is like orange then we can bring these arguments but they don't say that.

[Assad]

It cannot get any simpler than that, Trinitarians worship THREE Gods and they can't deny it.



Now off course Trinitarians have come up with dozens and dozens of laughable analogies to make sense of the Trinity, however so my favorite analogy Christians bring up to make sense of the Trinity is the Family analogy.



The family analogy basically says this:



A Family is made up of more than one member, a Father, Mother, and Son. Yet the family is one family and not three families, the same with Trinity.



This is my favorite analogy, and it is one of the most deceptive analogies. The family statement is true, a family is made up of 2 or more persons, a typical basic family is a Husband, Wife, and son.



But here is the problem, Christians say that each person in the Trinity is God, remember Christians say Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is also God. So therefore using the Christian Trinity doctrine, that would basically mean that the husband is a family, the wife is a family, and the son is also a family! In a family we say that the husband wife and son MAKE UP A FAMILLY, we do not say that each specific member of the family is the family!



Just test this out for yourself, go ask any Christian, is Jesus God, they will immediately say YES! AMENNNNNNNNNN! The Christian will not reply back by saying no Jesus is not God, but Jesus is part of God, you will NEVER hear this reply by a Christian, and I myself have never heard this from a Christian. So therefore the analogy FAILS since the analogy is not even close to Trinity, when you ask a husband are you a family sir? He will say I HAVE a family and yes I am in a family, but he will not say yes I am a family. So Christian Trinitarians have been very deceptive in their analogies and it seems they themselves don't understand what Trinity even is!



Christians do not say No Jesus is not God, or no the Father is not God, Christians do not say that Jesus and the Father are part of God and make up God, they say that Jesus IS God, they say that the Father IS God. So the analogy crumbles.



And this analogy even makes more problems! You see folks, someone doesn't come up to you alone and say are you a family? For instance if I was standing outside a shop all alone, a person would not ask me hey Sami are you a family? They would ask hey Sami are you in a family or do you have a family. So basically if we want to compare the Trinity to this family analogy, then this means that we should not ask Christians is Jesus God, we should ask Christians does Jesus have a God, does the Father have a God! Because the analogy is basically turning God into a family, so therefore this means God is made up of people, and is not one alone person, just like a family, so this means we should be asking the Christians does Jesus have a God rather than asking is Jesus God.



So as you can see, these analogies are so bad and deceptive they cause further problems for a Trinitarian. Trinitarians should simply accept the fact that they worship three God's, once doing so they will be able to throw this Trinity lie out the window and become a real monotheistic faith.



And Allah Knows best and Allah is One not Three

[sUbMiT_2_uR_CREATOR__]

For the orange analogy one may ask 'what if it has seeds in it?' :P
lol...such a stupid religion.

[salman]

^yeh akhi, your argument of seed isn't correct as I have stated above. They're not comparing orange to God but only drawing an analogy to explain their illogical concept.

[q8sobieski]

Originally Posted by sUbMiT_2_uR_CREATOR__

For the orange analogy one may ask 'what if it has seeds in it?' :P
lol...such a stupid religion.

As question to Muslims: Why doesn't your god understand English? Muslims only pray in Arabic. They only read the Koran in Arabic. They only say the shahada in Arabic. Is the Muslim god monolingual? Does the Muslim god not understand Farsi, Urdu, Bangali, Malay, Turkish, or Srpski? Islam seems to me to simply be a vehicle for 7th Century Hijazi Imperialism.

[Assad]

Originally Posted by q8sobieski

As question to Muslims: Why doesn't your god understand English? Muslims only pray in Arabic. They only read the Koran in Arabic. They only say the shahada in Arabic. Is the Muslim god monolingual? Does the Muslim god not understand Farsi, Urdu, Bangali, Malay, Turkish, or Srpski? Islam seems to me to simply be a vehicle for 7th Century Hijazi Imperialism.

Allah knows all languages and aforetime he sent Messengers and Holy Scriptures to all nations in their own languages so they may understand it clearly. All languages are created by Allah.

Your question is stupid and self contradictory. You asked why doesnt youe god understand English ? Muslims only pray in Arabic. These questions are 2 different questions

If I speak arabic or If I speak Urdu doesnt mean that God doesnt know any any other language apart from Urdu or Arabic.

If I ask you to drink water does that mean that you dont know how to drink PEPSI?

Muslims scriptures are only scripture which are recorded and yet memorized in its original language . See the bible which got thousands of contradictions and translations errors.

So it doesnt matter anyway , your question was baseless " as usual".

Regards