> Muslim Response The loving Biblical God's evil nature

[Assad]

Don't Rob God

"Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! "But you ask, 'What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?' "You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do," says the LORD Almighty, "I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not shrivel before they are ripe," says the LORD Almighty. (Malachi 3:8-11 NLT)

(Doesn't it seem really stupid that an all-powerful God claims he can bring food and grapes to the masses but he can't even feed himself?)


Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)


Natural Disasters are God's Wrath

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)




Pillage and Plunder

For the land of Israel lies empty and broken after your attacks, but the LORD will restore its honor and power again. Shields flash red in the sunlight! The attack begins! See their scarlet uniforms! Watch as their glittering chariots move into position, with a forest of spears waving above them. The chariots race recklessly along the streets and through the squares, swift as lightning, flickering like torches. The king shouts to his officers; they stumble in their haste, rushing to the walls to set up their defenses. But too late! The river gates are open! The enemy has entered! The palace is about to collapse! Nineveh's exile has been decreed, and all the servant girls mourn its capture. Listen to them moan like doves; watch them beat their breasts in sorrow. Nineveh is like a leaking water reservoir! The people are slipping away. "Stop, stop!" someone shouts, but the people just keep on running. Loot the silver! Plunder the gold! There seems no end to Nineveh's many treasures �" its vast, uncounted wealth. Soon the city is an empty shambles, stripped of its wealth. Hearts melt in horror, and knees shake. The people stand aghast, their faces pale and trembling. (Nahum 2:2-10 NLT)


An Angry Jealous God

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.' But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn." So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations. For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them. All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy. "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together. My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings. (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)

WHAT ? Havent the Christian God already forgiven the people by killing his son on cross?? Still he wants more venegance??



God Will Kill Ethiopia

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist. (Zephaniah 2:12-15 NLT)


God's Human Slaughter Fest

Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes �" a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. (Zephaniah 1:7:18 NLT)




God Will Kill Everyone
<< Peaceful Christians , yea right!>>

"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)




Old is New

Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment, for it is an old one you have always had, right from the beginning. This commandment �" to love one another �" is the same message you heard before. Yet it is also new. (1 John 2:7-8 NLT)

(This is not evil, but it is just so stupid I just had to post it.)




Prayer Cures the Sick

Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

(This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.)




Fire Breathing Dragons

"Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? "Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? "Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words? "Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant forever? "Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you bind him for your maidens? "Will the traders bargain over him? Will they divide him among the merchants? "Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? "Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle; you will not do it again! "Behold, your expectation is false; Will you be laid low even at the sight of him? "No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him; Who then is he that can stand before Me? "Who has given to Me that I should repay {him?} {Whatever} is under the whole heaven is Mine.

"I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame. "Who can strip off his outer armor? Who can come within his double mail? "Who can open the doors of his face? Around his teeth there is terror. "{His} strong scales are {his} pride, Shut up {as with} a tight seal. "One is so near to another That no air can come between them. "They are joined one to another; They clasp each other and cannot be separated. "His sneezes flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. "Out of his mouth go burning torches; Sparks of fire leap forth. "Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth As {from} a boiling pot and {burning} rushes. "His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes forth from his mouth. "In his neck lodges strength, And dismay leaps before him. "The folds of his flesh are joined together, Firm on him and immovable. "His heart is as hard as a stone, Even as hard as a lower millstone.

"When he raises himself up, the mighty fear; Because of the crashing they are bewildered. "The sword that reaches him cannot avail, Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin. "He regards iron as straw, Bronze as rotten wood. "The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones are turned into stubble for him. "Clubs are regarded as stubble; He laughs at the rattling of the javelin. "His underparts are {like} sharp potsherds; He spreads out {like} a threshing sledge on the mire. "He makes the depths boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a jar of ointment. "Behind him he makes a wake to shine; One would think the deep to be gray-haired. "Nothing on earth is like him, One made without fear. "He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride." (Job 41:1-34 NAS)


Hammer Tent Peg Into Head

Meanwhile, Sisera ran to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, because Heber's family was on friendly terms with King Jabin of Hazor. Jael went out to meet Sisera and said to him, "Come into my tent, sir. Come in. Don't be afraid." So he went into her tent, and she covered him with a blanket. "Please give me some water," he said. "I'm thirsty." So she gave him some milk to drink and covered him again. "Stand at the door of the tent," he told her. "If anybody comes and asks you if there is anyone here, say no." But when Sisera fell asleep from exhaustion, Jael quietly crept up to him with a hammer and tent peg. Then she drove the tent peg through his temple and into the ground, and so he died. When Barak came looking for Sisera, Jael went out to meet him. She said, "Come, and I will show you the man you are looking for." So he followed her into the tent and found Sisera lying there dead, with the tent peg through his temple. So on that day Israel saw God subdue Jabin, the Canaanite king. And from that time on Israel became stronger and stronger against King Jabin, until they finally destroyed him. (Judges 4:17-24 NLT)




Murder and Slavery

The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, "Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you." So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.

When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in Mount Heres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves. (Judges 1:21-35 NLT)


Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)

(Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)


Ten Thousand Murdered at God's Command

After Joshua died, the Israelites asked the LORD, "Which tribe should attack the Canaanites first?" The LORD answered, "Judah, for I have given them victory over the land." The leaders of Judah said to their relatives from the tribe of Simeon, "Join with us to fight against the Canaanites living in the territory allotted to us. Then we will help you conquer your territory." So the men of Simeon went with Judah. When the men of Judah attacked, the LORD gave them victory over the Canaanites and Perizzites, and they killed ten thousand enemy warriors at the town of Bezek. While at Bezek they encountered King Adoni-bezek and fought against him, and the Canaanites and Perizzites were defeated. Adoni-bezek escaped, but the Israelites soon captured him and cut off his thumbs and big toes. Adoni-bezek said, "I once had seventy kings with thumbs and big toes cut off, eating scraps from under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them." They took him to Jerusalem, and he died there. The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem and captured it, killing all its people and setting the city on fire. (Judges 1:1-8 NLT)


Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)




Canaan Enslaved for Absurd Reason

Noah, a man of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard. He drank some of the wine and became drunk, and he lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, he said, "Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers." He also said, "Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. May God make space for Japheth, and let him live in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave." (Genesis 9:20-27 NRSV)


Family Killed

Then Zimri, who commanded half of the royal chariots, made plans to kill him. One day in Tirzah, Elah was getting drunk at the home of Arza, the supervisor of the palace. Zimri walked in and struck him down and killed him. This happened in the twenty-seventh year of King Asa's reign in Judah. Then Zimri became the next king. Zimri immediately killed the entire royal family of Baasha, and he did not leave a single male child. He even destroyed distant relatives and friends. So Zimri destroyed the dynasty of Baasha as the LORD had promised through the prophet Jehu. This happened because of the sins of Baasha and his son Elah and because of all the sins they led Israel to commit, arousing the anger of the LORD, the God of Israel, with their idols. (1 Kings 16:9-13 NLT)


Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Exterminate 7 Nations

You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?' But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little. You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all. (Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT)


Kill Everyone in 7 Nations

When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)




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Decide yourself ! Can this terrorist , jealous , arrogant and idotic entity called biblical god can be the God ?? Looks like bibical God taught all love doctrines to so called loving "born again" christians but yet taught himself no manners no love !

[SilverLJ]

I assume this is to show that the Jewish and Christian God is not a very nice one or perhaps to show that the Bible is not a very nice book or to show Moses as a wicked man - I am not sure. Consider:

Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.


This is an absurd reading of the text. The whole passage is about our inner life, how we relate to good and bad times (which we all have) and the place of prayer in that. In this case it is likely it refers to sickness brought on by sin. But to interpret and use it as you suggest is stupidity.

Why choose these passages, why not the Sermon on the Mount or Hebrews 11. Every Christian and Jew knows that slaughter occurred in the Old Testament. For example, Moses told us not to kill yet he himself oversaw the killing of 3,000 on one day. These passages are 'shut up' and we do not use them as examples to follow. If one read the Qu'ran it is full of verses that tell how Allah will punish eternally who he will - are they 'shut up' or a sadness to you?

Muslims follow the Prophets example, so when he slaughtered 600 Jews in Medina because some disagreed with him and plotted against him is that and example Muslims should follow when they disagree with someone or someone plots against them? To do so would be barbaric.

[Umm Marwa Mustafa]

Originally Posted by SilverLJ

I assume this is to show that the Jewish and Christian God is not a very nice one or perhaps to show that the Bible is not a very nice book or to show Moses as a wicked man - I am not sure. Consider:

Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.


This is an absurd reading of the text. The whole passage is about our inner life, how we relate to good and bad times (which we all have) and the place of prayer in that. In this case it is likely it refers to sickness brought on by sin. But to interpret and use it as you suggest is stupidity.

Why choose these passages, why not the Sermon on the Mount or Hebrews 11. Every Christian and Jew knows that slaughter occurred in the Old Testament. For example, Moses told us not to kill yet he himself oversaw the killing of 3,000 on one day. These passages are 'shut up' and we do not use them as examples to follow. If one read the Qu'ran it is full of verses that tell how Allah will punish eternally who he will - are they 'shut up' or a sadness to you?

Muslims follow the Prophets example, so when he slaughtered 600 Jews in Medina because some disagreed with him and plotted against him is that and example Muslims should follow when they disagree with someone or someone plots against them? To do so would be barbaric.

1. Perhaps it is best that you do justice to your points by providing a means of verification. The slaughter of the Jews that you speak of was more than just “plotting”. If someone was plotting to kill you would you not plot to deter them and those who will follow in their footsteps? The prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) was a leader, father, husband, prophet, messenger etc therefore plotting against them was plotting against the revelation of God. On what basis would you say it is barbaric? If Obama was plotted against and his policies were criticized and waged conflict against what would his response be. Where is your proof for 600 [exact number] jews being slaughtered?

2. Your interpretation of the text is just as justifiable as mine by saying that no! The text refers to being ill. Where is your evidence that the above text is in reference to being ill and is in regards to being ill of sins only? Can you provide a means of verification of this point? Although I do agree many interpretations of the bible are absurd because they are taken out of context and objection to certain passages within the bible would be inconsistent and hypocritical for certain theists.

3. Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala is Just and he is the source of justice. Therefore those who transgress against their own souls and do not obey his command when the divine truth has been made clear then they are in violation and they fully deserve punishment just like those who follow Gods command and do righteous are deserving of being rewarded.

[salman]

@SilverLJ

first, it seems that interpretation of these Biblical verses is bit far fetched; however, you do have to agree that some Christians do end up doing this. Second, let's get the facts straight, the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza was punished according to the OT for breaking a treaty between them and Muslims. They were planing to incite war against Muslims and they encouraged the polytheists from Makkah to do so.

I suppose, you would want Muslims to have a tea party or a Saturday feast with their enemies, huh?

[Assad]

Well SilverLJ, Good to see you learning about your religion.

Originally Posted by SilverLJ

In this case it is likely it refers to sickness brought on by sin.

I know often Christians over have to resort to their own personal interpretation of Bible to give them a delusion that Bibe is not really evil, as in your case , you say it by the way " IT IS LIKELY" but It is not likely! Bible says it so! But anyways , You say that it refers to sickness brought on by a sin ? But arent the Christians supposed to be sinless now that Jesus Christ has supposedly died for their sins?? hmm... looks like bible needs a revision isnt?

Looking forward to hear from you.

Regards

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by Acid

I know often Christians have to resort to their own personal interpretation of Bible to give them a delusion that Bible is not really evil, as in your case , you say it by the way " IT IS LIKELY" but It is not likely! Bible says it so! But anyways , You say that it refers to sickness brought on by a sin ? But arent the Christians supposed to be sinless now that Jesus Christ has supposedly died for their sins?? hmm... looks like bible needs a revision isnt?

Christians don't 'resort' as you say to personal interpretations and in general are taught or learn two rules of interpretation. The first is that you have to see the verses in context (meaning an immediate one in the particular Bible book but a wider one of what is taught elsewhere) and with of course an understanding of the time they were written (lets call it a first horizon). That establishes if you like the meaning by a process of reasoning of the verse or section. The second horizon is about application, what does the teaching you have uncovered in the Bible lead you to do to better serve God now but again we do it by a process of reasoning.

One can never be certain in an absolute sense as to what a section of the Bible means and its application but with prayer, study, reasoning and commentaries one hopes to get near to what the author meant. But there is no 'official' meaning.

This is no different in the Qu'ran, it is written in early Arabic and so one needs dictionaries and lexicons to be sure you have understood what the words mean because they were used at a particular time and place and like any words, meanings can shift. You then have to come to an understanding in much the same way as I described. The only difference I can detect is that you look for an 'authority' (a Hadith for example) to give you a meaning and put reasoning in a perhaps distant second place.

Finally, Christians do not regard themselves as 'sinless' in perhaps the sense you mean. The teaching is perhaps most clearly expounded in Romans Ch 8 where we learn the Jesus has taken away our sin by His death and Resurrection so in God's site we are clean but we still live in the body and sin clings to that as we all know.

[Umm Marwa Mustafa]

Christians do resort to their own personal interpretations of the bible unlike Muslims. Each Christians believes that they themselves can arrive at the truth by interpreting and understanding the bible using their faculties & understanding. For you to claim otherwise is a little odd even looking at something within context if it has not been clarified or pinpointed to one interpretation would run into problems. You seem to be inconsistent with what you are saying you are saying A is not B and then A is sort of B.

1. Either Christians resort to personal interpretations or they don’t
2. IF Christians resort to personal interpretations they might have similarities in their understanding but this would still mean they each have their own little version.

Islam on the other hand (you have vaguely acknowledged and indicated this) has a source of authority. There is no “Either God is one or two” it’s just “ God is one” ( Mad example but you get my drift.)

[SilverLJ]

Ruwayda Mustafah;6185]1. Perhaps it is best that you do justice to your points by providing a means of verification. The slaughter of the Jews that you speak of was more than just “plotting”. If someone was plotting to kill you would you not plot to deter them and those who will follow in their footsteps? The prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) was a leader, father, husband, prophet, messenger etc therefore plotting against them was plotting against the revelation of God. On what basis would you say it is barbaric? If Obama was plotted against and his policies were criticized and waged conflict against what would his response be. Where is your proof for 600 [exact number] jews being slaughtered?

The sources for the 600 are it seems to me the best we can get: Ibn Ishaq and Sa'd bin Mu'radh. The fact is that not all the Jews plotted but all were killed (men) and Muhammed did steal their land and they would have known how we dealt with their sister tribes. I think it was barbaric because Mohammed expelled other tribes not slaughtered them but overall that is not my point, this is History, what I want to hear from you is to tell me if you think this example of the Prophet's behaviour that is to be emulated

[I]Your interpretation of the text is just as justifiable as mine by saying that no! The text refers to being ill. Where is your evidence that the above text is in reference to being ill and is in regards to being ill of sins only? Can you provide a means of verification of this point? Although I do agree many interpretations of the bible are absurd because they are taken out of context and objection to certain passages within the bible would be inconsistent and hypocritical for certain theists.[I]

Of course you are allowed to have an interpretation and like me I hope you base that on the context and the wider general Biblical teaching on similar matters. My point was that that using a text written in say AD50 and then finding a meaning that one should not take sick children to the Doctor is not a reasonable application of the meaning of that verse.

[I] Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala is Just and he is the source of justice. Therefore those who transgress against their own souls and do not obey his command when the divine truth has been made clear then they are in violation and they fully deserve punishment just like those who follow Gods command and do righteous are deserving of being rewarded.[I]

Well this might be Muslim teaching but it is not Christian. Christians out of love for God try to lead righteous and useful lives and indeed that mode of living shows them to be follows of Jesus. But no Christian would say he has earned any reward for that life however good, if Christians are justified before God it is not based on what they have done but on God's grace so there is no place for arrogance.

[Assad]

Originally Posted by sileverNJ

The sources for the 600 are it seems to me the best we can get: Ibn Ishaq and Sa'd bin Mu'radh. The fact is that not all the Jews plotted but all were killed (men) and Muhammed did steal their land and they would have known how we dealt with their sister tribes. I think it was barbaric because Mohammed expelled other tribes not slaughtered them but overall that is not my point, this is History, what I want to hear from you is to tell me if you think this example of the Prophet's behaviour that is to be emulated

The Jews were killed due to their treachery against the Muslims, due to the violation of the Treaties and support enemies of Muslims, providing them with arms and provoking other tribes to attack the City of Muslims and even to attempt the life of Prophet. They also committed various crimes against Muslim women and not to say they were rebellious against peace! After all there evil , the challenged Muslim to fight with them and didnt give up and when they saw their defeat they demanded that they should be set free. Would Muslims or anyone set criminals free? Those criminals who are known liars and hypocrites? Do you think Muslims should have had invited them for a feast? Ofcourse they deserved their punishment. EVERYONE was involved. There were few who came to Prophet to seek refuge and embraced Islam and were therefore forgiven. So its a myth to say that " Not every Jew was involved" , I understand you only have to look at the punishment which they deserved but you dont have a cheek to see what evil they did against the Muslims, so your point is totally baseless.

Regards

[Umm Marwa Mustafa]

Silver: Allah knows best what is in the hearts and minds of people.

It is not incumbent upon the believers to know the intention of their enemies. Whether all the Jews were encouraging or in favour of such plotting and hostility against the Muslims is just dancing for something to pick on.