> Bible's History & Corruption

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Rasheed

SilverLJ. There is no such thing as the Koran. There is no, and there never has been a, textus receptus ne varietur of the Holy Book of the Muslims. We have two kinds of evidence for this claim. One which comes from Muslims themselves. Many Classical Muslim scholars-Koranic commentators, collectors of hadith, lexica and Qirä’ät books, for example - have acknowledged not only that many verses revealed to Muhammad have been lost, and hence the Koran that we possess is incomplete, but also that the Koran assembled, whether by Abü Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Alï or ‘Uthmän, is capable of being read in different ways, in other words that variants exist. There are a number of hadiths that recount “the loss, withdrawal, or forgetting of this or that ‘verse’ said to have been revealed to the Prophet but not figuring” in the Koran as it now exists. The other comes from extant Koranic manuscripts, inscriptions and coins.

In conclusion one might say the Bible is more reliable that the Qu'ran and has much more evidence for it authenticity and authority. If you have evidence that the Qu'ran is untouched with any corruption then let here what it is?
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Utter nonsense. Quräan is proven history. No one can refute that. In excess to being preserved in its pure original text word to word. Dot to dot, Quräan does not have a single ayah that goes against established science. Bible on the other hand has "god revealed proven pure nonsense" like using bird's blood to disinfect a house of leprosey germs. This is just one such type of complete nonsense that is accepted by Christians as the word of God. These type of sayings in Bible is proof enough that Bible is corrupted.

If it is proved history then name the eyewitnesses to its reception, who saw or even heard the messenger - no it was an entirely private affair. The Bible on the other hand records many, many first person witness accounts.

You may say not a single ayah is against science but there are plenty of books and people will will dispute that.

I am unaware of the bit about birds blood as a disinfectant so can you tell us the Biblical reference - have you actually read that section of the Bible yourself?

[Ibrahim Rasheed]

REPLY TO SILVER LJ.

If it is proved history then name the eyewitnesses to its reception, who saw or even heard the messenger - no it was an entirely private affair. The Bible on the other hand records many, many first person witness accounts.


I think you should read a little bit more to understand how revelation was received to Prophet Muhammed SAW. He had received the revelation while with his companions and also while he is alone. These were documented while he was alive and ordered by prophet SAW. Every single reveraltion, immediately on receipt was ordered to scribes to be written down immediately by Prophet himself. I suppose you should learn a little bit more about Islam before starting to comment.
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You may say not a single ayah is against science but there are plenty of books and people will will dispute that.
I said established science. Can you take out proof of one Ayah and show instead of just saying there are so many books? Vagueness is not the basic for argument.
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I am unaware of the bit about birds blood as a disinfectant so can you tell us the Biblical reference - have you actually read that section of the Bible yourself?




Then my friend. Be aware of those verses from the Bible copied below. I am sorry that I did not put the reference when quoting from “God’s word” the first time.

1. • Leviticus 14:49-53
     49 take two birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop.
     50 He shall kill one of the birds over fresh water in a clay pot.
     51 Then he is to take the cedar wood, the hyssop, the scarlet yarn and the live bird, dip them into the blood of the dead bird and the fresh water, and sprinkle the house seven times.
     52 He shall purify the house with the bird's blood, the fresh water, the live bird, the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet yarn.
     53 Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields outside the town. In this way he will make atonement for the house, and it will be clean."
     
   • Leviticus 14:14
     14 The priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot.

What do you think? Are these Scientific and medical obnoxiousness or some sort of darkest African voodoo practice ordered by Bible God????



In excess to the above I will point out a few more absurdities with references:
The Bible Declares:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16)
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (2 Samuel 22:31)
"And the words of the LORD are flawless...." (Psalm 12:6)
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (Psalm 18:30)
"Every word of God is flawless...." (Proverbs 30:5)

Absurdities in Genesis 11:1-9
The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.
2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building.
6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.
9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Point to note here:
1- Not only these verses are seriously very insulting to Allah Almighty because they present Him as a GOD who feared men, but they also reveal a very serious scientific blunder through suggesting that the earth is both flat and sitting still in the universe, something that is quite contrary to what the Holy Quran teaches.
2- The verses also demonstrate the Bible's gross ignorance about the Universe. Even if the Babylonians were able to build a sky scrapper, as we have hundreds, if not thousands, of them today worldwide, that went beyond the clouds, then how would that be of any threat to Allah Almighty? And again, the false verses are portraying Allah Almighty as a GOD who fears man! Compare these falsehoods to Holy Quran's Divine and True Scientific Miracles and accuracy. The verses that relates to science.
· Genesis 11 is also is ignorant about lack of Oxygen in space, the vastness of space and the impossibility to reach GOD Almighty, and the impossibility to reach outer space without space protection. Otherwise, your body would burst! Plus, again, you would suffocate to death anyway due to the lack of oxygen.

A Failed Prophecy?
If we were to take Genesis 11:6 as a Divine Promise and Prophecy from GOD Almighty to never allow man to build any tower that reaches the sky (i.e., building a sky scrapper), then man today have obviously and overwhelmingly and decisively destroyed this false prophesy and promise, proving that the Bible is no more than a false book of lies and praising of pornography!

3- Even if the Babylonians were hypothetically able to reach the moon(!), which would've been impossible for them back then, how would they have been any threat to Allah Almighty? Again, compare this falsehood to the Divine Truth of the Holy Quran where Allah Almighty said that we will be able to reach space someday.
4- The fact that the bible falsely quoted Allah Almighty Saying: "then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them" proves that the Bible, without a doubt, is indeed false and corrupt, as ironically, it's own theologians openly and clearly admit.
5- The Bible even praises sick pornography and also praises incestuous fantasies; brothers and sisters lusting after each others. The Bible sings praises for this pornography.
(Christians acclaim this to Bible being more humane as it shows human’s faults and in my view so does every porn writer. They too shows graphic details of human lust and enjoyment).

Further more:
Revelations 12:1-9, the dragon will enter heaven and wage war with the angels! It is a classic fairy tale from a magical world.
Judges 9:7-16, trees voted for their own King. Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."
Leviticus 11:20-23, "All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you." No insect with four legs exists. Insects have six legs.
Leviticus 11:6 "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants; they do not chew the cud.
The earth is flat, has four corners, is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking, and is immovable.(1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8)
Daniel 4:10-11 declares the earth is flat, "10 These are the visions I saw while lying in my bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth."
Matthew 13:31-32 "He (Jesus) told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds," The mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Others, such as the orchid seed, are smaller.
John 12:24 "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." That is scientifically false. The dead seed does not produce new seeds.
Leviticus 12:2-5, a female causes double the pollution when she's born than that of a boy. The mother remains unclean for 66 days after birth of a female instead of 33 days if she gives birth to a male.

I thank www.answering.christianity.com and the Bible for the information above.

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Rasheed

REPLY TO SILVER LJ. If it is proved history then name the eyewitnesses to its reception, who saw or even heard the messenger - no it was an entirely private affair. The Bible on the other hand records many, many first person witness accounts. I think you should read a little bit more to understand how revelation was received to Prophet Muhammed SAW. He had received the revelation while with his companions and also while he is alone. These were documented while he was alive and ordered by prophet SAW. Every single reveraltion, immediately on receipt was ordered to scribes to be written down immediately by Prophet himself. I suppose you should learn a little bit more about Islam before starting to comment.

I think you are mistaken, I have never seen anywhere where witnesses heard or saw Gods so called massager. It MUST also be true that there was no army of scribes to write down everything in the early revelations, WE know from the Muslim records that what was recorded was on bits of bones, leaves etc so hardly a careful and organised action was it. One also reads of the surprise by for example Zaid when he was asked to make an organised collection. In short if you read Muslim accounts (which more often than not differ) it was what looks like a haphazard affair.
I am unaware of the bit about birds blood as a disinfectant so can you tell us the Biblical reference - have you actually read that section of the Bible yourself?

Then my friend. Be aware of those verses from the Bible copied below. I am sorry that I did not put the reference when quoting from “God’s word” the first time.

Leviticus 14:49-53 49 take two birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop. He shall kill one of the birds over fresh water in a clay pot. 51 Then he is to take the cedar wood, the hyssop, the scarlet yarn and the live bird, dip them into the blood of the dead bird and the fresh water, and sprinkle the house seven times. He shall purify the house with the bird's blood, the fresh water, the live bird, the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet yarn. 53 Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields outside the town. In this way he will make atonement for the house, and it will be clean."

This passage is about ritual, it is what is done to signify that a house is clear from some kind of infection. In those days one did not have public health inspectors so the duties were take in as part of religious ritual so if you had read further you would see that the priest examines the house and if he finds the infection gone goes through this ritual or being simplistic it would today be like getting a certificate of health. If you argue in this empty way one might say in Islam all ritual is pointless, for example that walking round the black stone is stupid and meaningless nonsense akin to pagan practices that are designed to appease the Gods.

In excess to the above I will point out a few more absurdities with references: The Bible Declares: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." "As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. And the words of the LORD are flawless.... "As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.... Every word of God is flawless

Are you saying the above is NOT true, if so then the Qu'ran is also worthless

Absurdities in Genesis - The Tower of Babel

The only absurdity here is that you appear to take everything you read literally so I guess the story in the Qu'ran about the Cave is word for word true for you or the story about Mohammed's heart being removed and washed with snow or was that just in your words a 'classic fairly tale'- I suggest you start thinking and stop copying from websites assuming that because they are Islamic they must be right.

The Bible sings praises for this pornography. Christians acclaim this to Bible being more humane as it shows human’s faults and in my view so does every porn writer. They too shows graphic details of human lust and enjoyment).

Please show me where the Bible exhorts us to be pornographic - do things like the 10 commandments mean nothing to you or do you think it right that the Bible should not tell its history as it was?

Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."

This just shows conclusively that you have not bothered to read the section but so you are not interested in truth only propping up your own beliefs. The passage in Judges Jotham who says these words is CLEARLY using an analogy and in context its meaning is plain for all to see. I could go through each of the other things you quoted but it seems pointless because you did not read them any way and certainly did not research any of them - however, if you want to present them one by one then do so so we don't end up with long posts

[Ibrahim Rasheed]

Originally Posted by SilverLJ

I think you are mistaken, I have never seen anywhere where witnesses heard or saw Gods so called massager. It MUST also be true that there was no army of scribes to write down everything in the early revelations, WE know from the Muslim records that what was recorded was on bits of bones, leaves etc so hardly a careful and organised action was it. One also reads of the surprise by for example Zaid when he was asked to make an organised collection. In short if you read Muslim accounts (which more often than not differ) it was what looks like a haphazard affair.

Wow. You seems to be in love with Zaid, the murderer of the Prophet house hold. No wonder one has to question where you get your information. By the time Zaid came into picture, the Quraán was written. Khaleefa Usman (RA) assembled the Quraán on paper 2nd time. One of the copies is still there in the museum.

I never said the companions heard it. I said he received revelations while among them too. Every single revelation was memorized by majority of people during that time, and scribes noted the revelations on different materials. It took 23 years (if I am not mistaken) for revelation to complete. By that time there were thousands who had memorized Quraán by heart. You seem to be blind to the fact that every ramazan all the muslims completes the quraán. Quraán was recited in masjids during prayers. Its not your Bible that was written 150years after Jesus death. Please try not to comment until you know what you are talking about.

I am unaware of the bit about birds blood as a disinfectant so can you tell us the Biblical reference - have you actually read that section of the Bible yourself?

This passage is about ritual, it is what is done to signify that a house is clear from some kind of infection. In those days one did not have public health inspectors so the duties were take in as part of religious ritual so if you had read further you would see that the priest examines the house and if he finds the infection gone goes through this ritual or being simplistic it would today be like getting a certificate of health. If you argue in this empty way one might say in Islam all ritual is pointless, for example that walking round the black stone is stupid and meaningless nonsense akin to pagan practices that are designed to appease the Gods.



You are sadly incorrect. It’s not about rituals. This is not God’s word. If God says In this way he will make atonement for the house, and it will be clean. It has to be clean If its God’s word. This method is wrong and its absurd. Its not a ritual but a revelation from God showing how you can disinfect a house of leprosy germs. What nonsense.


Are you saying the above is NOT true, if so then the Qu'ran is also worthless

Again your limited understanding of what others say is clearly shown in your answer. I mentioned to you that your Scripture the Bible has almost 80% of man’s word and 20% of God’s word. Such a scripture cannot be an Inspiration of God. You are hoodwinked by Paul to believe in that. Its God revealed scriptures that are flawless. Not the Paul altered Bible that we talk here. The author of the Bible being a politician declares All scriptures is given by inspiration of God. No that’s not true. Well, As for God his way is perfect. This is right. The Word of LORD is flawless. That too is right. But is the Bible God’s word?? No its not. There are few pages of Gods word and bulk of Paul’s own writings.

The only absurdity here is that you appear to take everything you read literally so I guess the story in the Qu'ran about the Cave is word for word true for you or the story about Mohammed's heart being removed and washed with snow or was that just in your words a 'classic fairly tale'- I suggest you start thinking and stop copying from websites assuming that because they are Islamic they must be right.


No we do not take literal meaning from Bible. Can you explain what is the meaning of that verse. The Tower of Babel??? It is you the Christians that take literal meaning to make Jesus God. Waiting for your explanation of the Tower of Babel.



Please show me where the Bible exhorts us to be pornographic - do things like the 10 commandments mean nothing to you or do you think it right that the Bible should not tell its history as it was?


Do you believe those stories about Prophets?? I believe that God’s prophets are more pious and honorable men. King David, Solomon etc. are the tip of the iceburg that Bible writers changed it to suit their mood.


This just shows conclusively that you have not bothered to read the section but so you are not interested in truth only propping up your own beliefs. The passage in Judges Jotham who says these words is CLEARLY using an analogy and in context its meaning is plain for all to see. I could go through each of the other things you quoted but it seems pointless because you did not read them any way and certainly did not research any of them - however, if you want to present them one by one then do so so we don't end up with long posts

No you cannot give any other meaning for these verses except another Lie or a distortion. The same pathetic way you tried to show Bird’s blood absurdity as a ritual.

For your information, we do not worship Kabaa. Nor the Hajj rituals are any Pagan dance that we follow. Every action there represents a specific action in life. Like Thowaf, the circumambulating the Kabaa Masjid. Facing Kabaa Masjid while prayer shows that all muslims are directed in one way, believe one and worship one.
Do you know that the Imam use to climb the roof of Kabaa and give Azaan (the call for prayer)???

[SilverLJ]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Rasheed

No you cannot give any other meaning for these verses except another Lie or a distortion. The same pathetic way you tried to show Bird’s blood absurdity as a ritual.

You seem to be of the opinion that your view is not only correct but the only one possible - of course its a ritual what else can it be and you suggestion that it is antiseptic in an modern sense is absurd. But lets leave it there.

You seems to be in love with Zaid, the murderer of the Prophet house hold. No wonder one has to question where you get your information. By the time Zaid came into picture, the Quraán was written. Khaleefa Usman (RA) assembled the Quraán on paper 2nd time. One of the copies is still there in the museum.

I should have perhaps been clearer but I was obviously speaking of Zaid ibn Thabit, unless of course you have never heard of him? Presumably you do not know that Zaid ibn Thabit was a secretary of the prophet and is said to have assembled the first compilation of the Qu'ran and Utham chose him some years later to prepare the official text. I think you are mistaken as I know of no complete existing copy of the Uthman codex (although I am unclear what Museum you are talking about)

By that time there were thousands who had memorized Quraán by heart. You seem to be blind to the fact that every ramazan all the muslims completes the quraán. Quraán was recited in masjids during prayers.

But if you read Muslim accounts you will understand why Uthman required an official text - do you not see that if there was an absolute text that every one knew what point could there be in producing and official version. I suggest you read the history of the text for yourself - for example, Al-Azami, "The History of the Quar'anic Text", not a great book but look at it anyway.

Its not your Bible that was written 150years after Jesus death. Please try not to comment until you know what you are talking about.

The Bible has two parts and the OT was available many 100s of years before Jesus and and the NT is usually dated around 70AD - could hardly be earlier could it?

Again your limited understanding of what others say is clearly shown in your answer. I mentioned to you that your Scripture the Bible has almost 80% of man’s word and 20% of God’s word. Such a scripture cannot be an Inspiration of God.

Where do you get these percentages from, do you know of a scholarly Journal that has somehow worked it out or are you guessing? One only has to consider Biblical archaeology to show how accurate the Bible is and time after time its content has been verified.

You are hoodwinked by Paul to believe in that. Its God revealed scriptures that are flawless. Not the Paul altered Bible that we talk here. The author of the Bible being a politician declares All scriptures is given by inspiration of God. No that’s not true. Well, As for God his way is perfect. This is right. The Word of LORD is flawless. That too is right. But is the Bible God’s word?? No its not. There are few pages of Gods word and bulk of Paul’s own writings.

I take it this is your opinion and that you are able to say such things because you are expert in Biblical studies? Did you know that someone has written a book that shows every section of the Qu'ran is in fact a copy from somewhere else?

No we do not take literal meaning from Bible. Can you explain what is the meaning of that verse. The Tower of Babel??? It is you the Christians that take literal meaning to make Jesus God. Waiting for your explanation of the Tower of Babel

. The story of the Tower of Babel is one in which we hear of men trying to reach God - I can give a fuller exposition if you wish later. But did you know that Archaeology has located what is supposed to be the Tower of Babel in Iraq - once again a verification of Biblical writings?

Do you believe those stories about Prophets?? I believe that God’s prophets are more pious and honorable men. King David, Solomon etc. are the tip of the iceburg that Bible writers changed it to suit their mood.

Well you are entitled to believe what you wish but I find no reason to doubt the Biblical accounts - if as you say writers changed it, please explain why any one with any sense at all would want to portray deliberately and falsely according to you their OWN revered prophets in such a bad light - it does not make sense does it.

[Ibrahim Rasheed]

Re: Bible's History & Corruption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahim Rasheed
No you cannot give any other meaning for these verses except another Lie or a distortion. The same pathetic way you tried to show Bird’s blood absurdity as a ritual.

You seem to be of the opinion that your view is not only correct but the only one possible - of course its a ritual what else can it be and you suggestion that it is antiseptic in an modern sense is absurd. But lets leave it there.


UNFORTUNATLEY THAT VERSE DOES NOT TALK ABOUT ANY RITUALS. IT GIVES PRECISE INFORMATION DIRECT FROM GOD ON HOW TO DISINFECT A HOUSE OF LEPROSEY GERMS. YOU SAY “OFCOUSE IT IS A RITUAL, WHAT ELSE CAN ITBE”. BASED ON WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HOODWINK THE READERS?? DOES THE VERSES GIVES ANY HINT ABOUT A RITUAL?? NO IT DOES NOT. IT GIVE PRECISE INSTRUCTION ON HOW TO GET RID OF LEPROSEY GERMS FROM THE HOUSE.
Quote:
You seems to be in love with Zaid, the murderer of the Prophet house hold. No wonder one has to question where you get your information. By the time Zaid came into picture, the Quraán was written. Khaleefa Usman (RA) assembled the Quraán on paper 2nd time. One of the copies is still there in the museum.

I should have perhaps been clearer but I was obviously speaking of Zaid ibn Thabit, unless of course you have never heard of him? Presumably you do not know that Zaid ibn Thabit was a secretary of the prophet and is said to have assembled the first compilation of the Qu'ran and Utham chose him some years later to prepare the official text. I think you are mistaken as I know of no complete existing copy of the Uthman codex (although I am unclear what Museum you are talking about)

THE COMPLETE QURAN FROM USMAN RA STILL EXIST AND IT IS THERE. YOU CAN LOOK UP YOURSELF. I KNOW ZAID IBN THABIT AS HE WAS ONE OF THE SCRIBES WHO WROTE DOWN THE QURÄAN. WHY NOT YOU LEARN OR GO THROUGH SOME REAL ISLAMIC HISTORY (NOT YOUR CHRISTIAN DISTORTIONS) AND YOU WILL KNOW THAT NO WHERE IN THE HISTORY OF ISLAM, FROM BEGINNING TILL TODAY, THERE NEVER WAS ANY DISAGREEMENT ON QURAÄN OR ITS TEXT. DO YOU KNOW THAT AT THAT TIME, AISHA RA. HAD A COMPLETE TEXT OF QURAÁN ACCUMULATED BY ABOOBAKRU, THE FIRST KHALEEFA??

Quote:
By that time there were thousands who had memorized Quraán by heart. You seem to be blind to the fact that every ramazan all the muslims completes the quraán. Quraán was recited in masjids during prayers.

But if you read Muslim accounts you will understand why Uthman required an official text - do you not see that if there was an absolute text that every one knew what point could there be in producing and official version. I suggest you read the history of the text for yourself - for example, Al-Azami, "The History of the Quar'anic Text", not a great book but look at it anyway.

YOU STILL DO NOT GET IT CORRECT?? MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ MORE OF USMAAN RA. IN ISLAMIC HISTORY TO KNOW WHY QURAAN WAS WRITTEN DOWN AGAIN TO MAKE MORE BOOKS TO DISTRIBUTE TO THE CITIES AND LANDS THAT WAS COMING INTO THE FOLD OF ISLAM. OFCOURSE THERE WERE OTHER CauSES TO WRITE DOWN AND DISTRIBUTE THE QURAÁN.

Quote:
Its not your Bible that was written 150years after Jesus death. Please try not to comment until you know what you are talking about.

The Bible has two parts and the OT was available many 100s of years before Jesus and and the NT is usually dated around 70AD - could hardly be earlier could it?
Quote:
Again your limited understanding of what others say is clearly shown in your answer. I mentioned to you that your Scripture the Bible has almost 80% of man’s word and 20% of God’s word. Such a scripture cannot be an Inspiration of God.

Where do you get these percentages from, do you know of a scholarly Journal that has somehow worked it out or are you guessing? One only has to consider Biblical archaeology to show how accurate the Bible is and time after time its content has been verified.

YOU CAN SEE FOR YOURSLEF WHAT IS DIRECT FROM GOD (LESS THAN 20%) AND WHAT IS FROM HUMAN AUTHORS. JUST CHECK UP AND SEE HOW MANY PAGES YOU CAN ACCUMULATE WHERE IT SAYS GOD SAID THIS AND THAT. YOU WILL NOT GET MORE THAN 23 PAGES WHERE GOD HIMSELF SAYS DO THIS OR SAY THAT IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE.

Quote:
You are hoodwinked by Paul to believe in that. Its God revealed scriptures that are flawless. Not the Paul altered Bible that we talk here. The author of the Bible being a politician declares All scriptures is given by inspiration of God. No that’s not true. Well, As for God his way is perfect. This is right. The Word of LORD is flawless. That too is right. But is the Bible God’s word?? No its not. There are few pages of Gods word and bulk of Paul’s own writings.

I take it this is your opinion and that you are able to say such things because you are expert in Biblical studies? Did you know that someone has written a book that shows every section of the Qu'ran is in fact a copy from somewhere else?

NO, I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN BIBLE. BUT UNFORTUNATELY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN EXPERT TO KNOW WHO WROTE AND MADE UP THE BIBLE. YOU BELIEVE IN PAUL WHO COULD NOT EVEN RELATE HIS OWN MIRACLE TWICE THE SAME WAY. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN EXPERT TO KNOW THAT BIRD’S BLOOD IS NOT A DISINFECTANT FOR LEPROSY. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN EXPERT TO KNOW ADDITION MISTAKES IN THE BIBLE. JUST A PASS IN TODAY'S KINDERGARDEN STANDERED WILL BE ENOUGH TO CORRECT THE ADDITION MISTAKES IN THE BIBLE, THE BOOK YOU CALL THE "WORD OF GOD".

Quote:
No we do not take literal meaning from Bible. Can you explain what is the meaning of that verse. The Tower of Babel??? It is you the Christians that take literal meaning to make Jesus God. Waiting for your explanation of the Tower of Babel

. The story of the Tower of Babel is one in which we hear of men trying to reach God - I can give a fuller exposition if you wish later. But did you know that Archaeology has located what is supposed to be the Tower of Babel in Iraq - once again a verification of Biblical writings?

QUESTION HERE IS WHAT DOES GOD WANT TO SAY WITH TOWER OF BABEL?? YOU SAID NOT TO TAKE LITERAL MEANING. BUT YOU STARTED WITH ARCHAEOLOGY WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC. PLEASE DO NOT HOODWINK READERS AND TELL PLAINLY WHAT GOD MEANT BY THIS TOWER OF BABEL. I AM SURE YOUR GOD WAS NOT SPEAKING IN PARABLES TO MISLEAD READERS ON THIS VERSE. BIBE GOD WAS VERY VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD ON THAT VERSE. PLEASE GIVE AN HONEST ANSWER. BY SAYING "WHAT ELSE CAN IT BE" DOES NOT MAKE THE SAYING ANOTHER RITUAL.

Quote:
Do you believe those stories about Prophets?? I believe that God’s prophets are more pious and honorable men. King David, Solomon etc. are the tip of the iceburg that Bible writers changed it to suit their mood.

Well you are entitled to believe what you wish but I find no reason to doubt the Biblical accounts - if as you say writers changed it, please explain why any one with any sense at all would want to portray deliberately and falsely according to you their OWN revered prophets in such a bad light - it does not make sense does it.

WE DO NOT PORTRAY BIBLE EXCEPT THE WAY IT EXPRESSES ITSELF. SO DO NOT ACCUSE US OF SAYING EXACTLY WHAT BIBLE SAY AND IF WE EXPRESS THE LITERAL MEANING IN THE BIBLE WHICH YOU SAY IS NOT RIGHT, WE REQUEST YOU TO CLARIFY YOUR MEANING. SO FAR YOU FAILED MISERABLY BY MOVING OUT OF THE TOPIC LIKE ABOVE TOWER OF BABEL. WE NEVER SAID IT DID NOT HAPPEN OR THE TOWER WAS NOT THERE. THE ISSUE WITH THE TOWER IS GOD SAID HE WILL NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO BUILD TOWERS LIKE BABEL’S. SO PLEASE STICK TO THE ISSUE AND EXPLAIN.

[Earl]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Rasheed

SilverLJ. There is no such thing as the Koran. There is no, and there never has been a, textus receptus ne varietur of the Holy Book of the Muslims. We have two kinds of evidence for this claim. One which comes from Muslims themselves. Many Classical Muslim scholars-Koranic commentators, collectors of hadith, lexica and Qirä’ät books, for example - have acknowledged not only that many verses revealed to Muhammad have been lost, and hence the Koran that we possess is incomplete, but also that the Koran assembled, whether by Abü Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Alï or ‘Uthmän, is capable of being read in different ways, in other words that variants exist. There are a number of hadiths that recount “the loss, withdrawal, or forgetting of this or that ‘verse’ said to have been revealed to the Prophet but not figuring” in the Koran as it now exists. The other comes from extant Koranic manuscripts, inscriptions and coins.

In conclusion one might say the Bible is more reliable that the Qu'ran and has much more evidence for it authenticity and authority. If you have evidence that the Qu'ran is untouched with any corruption then let here what it is?
=======================

Utter nonsense. Quräan is proven history. No one can refute that. In excess to being preserved in its pure original text word to word. Dot to dot, Quräan does not have a single ayah that goes against established science. Bible on the other hand has "god revealed proven pure nonsense" like using bird's blood to disinfect a house of leprosey germs. This is just one such type of complete nonsense that is accepted by Christians as the word of God.

These type of sayings in Bible is proof enough that Bible is corrupted.

Yes, the Quran to a large part has a proven history, though many Muslims do not know that history. F.x. partly because of the unfinished alphabet (the Arab alphabet was not completed until around 900 AD - lacking vovels, dicritial points, etc.). Because of this there for long times existed many versions of the of he Quran. I do not here and now remember the year and the name of the leader for this, but finally 14 - fourteen - cannonized versions of the book. Over the centuries a few of them came to dominate, but even today you find one version in parts of Africa, and another in the rest of the world (Warsh and Hafs). If you go to the page which normally is on top on "Mistakes in the Quran" on Google and Yahoo, you will find more about this and the complete list.

Can you please tell me where in the Bible bird's blood is used to desinfect against leprosy? I am not religious, but I have studied both the Bible and the Quran, and I have never seen this or similar.

As for there being no scientific wrongs in the Quran, I refrain from commenting on that. But read the complete Quran with your brain and your knowledge engaged.

Finally: Are you aware that both science and Islam - the last one inadvertedly - thoroughly have proved that the never documented - or explained how it was possible technically - claim that the Bible is falsified, is wrong? There exists some 12ooo manuscripts or fragments from the Bible older than 610 AD + some 32ooo others with referances to the Bible. In all that material not one single falsification is proved - some mistakes, but not one falsification (and the best proof for this, is Islam's silence - guess if they had screamed about it is even one single proved case had been found!).

Good luck anyhow.

[Assad]

Originally Posted by Earl

Yes, the Quran to a large part has a proven history, though many Muslims do not know that history. F.x. partly because of the unfinished alphabet (the Arab alphabet was not completed until around 900 AD - lacking vovels, dicritial points, etc.). Because of this there for long times existed many versions of the of he Quran. I do not here and now remember the year and the name of the leader for this, but finally 14 - fourteen - cannonized versions of the book. Over the centuries a few of them came to dominate, but even today you find one version in parts of Africa, and another in the rest of the world (Warsh and Hafs). If you go to the page which normally is on top on "Mistakes in the Quran" on Google and Yahoo, you will find more about this and the complete list.

Can you please tell me where in the Bible bird's blood is used to desinfect against leprosy? I am not religious, but I have studied both the Bible and the Quran, and I have never seen this or similar.

As for there being no scientific wrongs in the Quran, I refrain from commenting on that. But read the complete Quran with your brain and your knowledge engaged.

Finally: Are you aware that both science and Islam - the last one inadvertedly - thoroughly have proved that the never documented - or explained how it was possible technically - claim that the Bible is falsified, is wrong? There exists some 12ooo manuscripts or fragments from the Bible older than 610 AD + some 32ooo others with referances to the Bible. In all that material not one single falsification is proved - some mistakes, but not one falsification (and the best proof for this, is Islam's silence - guess if they had screamed about it is even one single proved case had been found!).

Good luck anyhow.

Hey Earl,

Typical of thousands of Islam haters , you googled up 'Mistake in Quran' and 'youtubed' and came to conclusion. Had you had any intellectual capacity so you would have bought the argument on surface rather than simply referring to a list.

Regarding Arabic alphabet , again , Arabic was complete in and well formed language for decades before the arrival of Islam. Arabic had 'pronunciation' variants and they were all recognized at the time of Islam. The dictational parts you mentioned aren't part of Arabic LANGUAGE. They came to Quran later on to ease learning , pronunciation of Arabic text for the non-arabic speaking Muslims.

Arabic language was complete by every mean. You need to correct your understanding there.

Take care Earl.