This is a discussion on Does Allah (God) Exist? within the Atheism and Agnosticism forums, part of the Refutations category; Islamic-Life presents irrefutable arguments for proving the existence of Allah (God) to atheists (who deny there is no God), agnostics (who believe that there is ...
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| ![]() Islamic-Life presents irrefutable arguments for proving the existence of Allah (God) to atheists (who deny there is no God), agnostics (who believe that there is no evidence which proves or disapproves the existence of God), polytheists (who believe that there are multiple gods) and theists/creationists (who believe that some intelligent Being created this universe and they call this intelligent Being God). There are other categories of people but our arguments will be limited to these groups for now. Most of the arguments for proving the existence of God have been excerpted from the book "From Microbits to everything: Universe of the Imaginator)" by Nadeem Haque and M. Muslims (which can be purchased Here and further analyzed in the light of correct understanding of Islamic beliefs and logic. The topic will be divided in different sub topics to cover most of the arguments. The sequence of topics will be following 1- Where did we come from? Is there an Eternal and Everlasting? (Does Allah (God) Exist?) 2- Who is this Eternal and Everlasting? Why matter cannot be the Eternal? (Does Allah (God) Exist?) 3- Why is this Eternal called Allah (God), why not something else? 4- Solving the problem of evil and paradox of free-will! 5- What is the purpose of our life? 6- Why Islam is the true message of Allah? The thread will be locked for time being and the users can discuss this topic in length once Islamic-Life finishes presenting their points. Some basic typical arguments by theists regarding our existence There must be a purpose of our existence, we were not born for nothing or to enjoy our life and do whatever we want. We did not come out of nothing or evolved from monkeys. Islamic-Life will present an expanded irrefutable version of these basic ideas in much simpler form to prove the existence of God. The topic evolution will be discussed later in much details due to lack of my knowledge. wallahu a'lam (and Allah knows best)
__________________ Fi Amanillah Wa As-Salamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu Wa Al-Magfiratuhu The Prophet sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam said: "The Muslim is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind:Their Land is ONE, their War is ONE, their Peace is ONE, Their Honour is ONE and their Trust is ONE." [Ahmad] Shaykh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullah) said: "What can my enemies possibly do to me? My paradise is in my heart; wherever I go it goes with me, inseparable from me. For me, prison is a place of (religious) retreat; execution is my opportunity for martyrdom; and exile from my town is but a chance to travel." Imam Ibn al-Jawzi (rahimahullah) on the Ash'arites: "The heretics claim; i) there is no God in the Heavens, ii) neither is there Qur'an in the Mushaf, and iii) nor is there a Prophet in the grave;'your three shameful facets'" |
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| In search of Momin's Palace ![]() Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Islamic-Life.com Posts: 528 Thanks: 11
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
| Part 1 - Where did we come from? Is there an Eternal and Everlasting? With The Name Of Allah, Ar-Rahman (The Bestower Of Mercy), Ar-Raheem (The Most Merciful), I start writing; Seeking His Help and His Blessings. Praise to be Allah (God), the Lord of the worlds, Who rose above the heavens over His throne in a manner that suits His Glory and Majesty. I testify there is none worthy of worship except Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and Muhammad ibn Abdullah (Peace and blessings be upon him), the best of mankind, is His last and final messenger. First Question: Do we exist? No can rationally prove that we do not exist and anyone who argues that we do not exist disproves himself by his own argument. Non-existed things do not make arguments! 2nd Question: Did we create ourselves? The answer is no because in order to create ourselves we first must be uncreated; in other words we must have been first nothing. However, nothing comes out of nothing. This is the classical argument presented in the Qur'an [52:35-36-interpretation of the meaning]: "Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief." We exist and are something! 3rd Question: So where did we come from? Only two possibilities: (1) We always have been around (2) Someone which always has been around created us (The Eternal) The first part does not work because we were born and will die; in other words we are limited and never has always been. Anything that changes is temporal. No one can rationally disapprove it. In conclusion, we exist, and we came out of something which has always existed; in other words the Eternal. The Eternal must be limitless As I have mentioned above that no thing could arise from nothing or create itself, all things which exist must arise from something which has always been-- the Eternal. Hence, since the Eternal cannot produce anything from nothing (because nothing produces nothing), whatever the Eternal produces must be something which the Eternal could have always produced and therefore all the temporal things must have always been the possibilities of the Eternal. Now, whatever the nature of things may be, reality can be no more than the Eternal and its possibilities. Reality is the combination of things which has born or yet to born. Given that there is nothing apart from the Eternal and it is possibilities, it must logically follow that there is nothing to limit the Eternal and its possibilities. Something which is neither Eternal nor a possibility of the Eternal is nothing and hence nothing cannot limit something. Therefore, the Eternal and its possibilities must form a limitless reality. Since we came to the conclusion that all temporal (non-eternal) things strictly arise from the Eternal, it is to state in effect that the Eternal is the limitless reality. Where there is nothing apart from the Eternal, there is nothing to limit the eternal. In conclusion, without anything limiting the Eternal, the Eternal must be limitless. The Eternal must be unchangeable and hence Everlasting Can the Eternal be the sum or the combination of the limited things? The answer is no because, first, the multiplicity is only possible because there are limited things. Think about this way, two things or more, for that matter, combined together can never make something which they came out of. It also contradicts our basic premise. There are things more than one because one does not occupy the whole room and they change i.e. humans age; hence they are limited. So we can say that limited things are movable, changeable or divisible and hence they cannot be the Eternal or form an eternal because by definition in terms of positions in the space the changing or movable things cannot be Eternal. To be Eternal is what you have been forever. Therefore, the Eternal is unchangeable. Anything which is limited, changeable, must have a moment or place where it first begun to change or came into being, for example the humans. The subsequent or continuous changes cannot occur without a prior beginning. So in order to have a beginning there must be a pre-beginning or non-beginning position. Here, we are talking about the beginning of all things in space. Since something which does not begin does not come from anywhere, it must follow that the Eternal which gave rise to everything must be Everlasting. Conclusion This concludes the first part and answer to the question is that we are limited and were created by an Eternal and Everlasting Being. The next part will cover the question: who is this Eternal and Everlasting Being and why matter cannot be Eternal? wallahu a'lam (and Allah knows best) |
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| In search of Momin's Palace ![]() Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Islamic-Life.com Posts: 528 Thanks: 11
Thanked 43 Times in 39 Posts
| Part 2 - Who is this Eternal and Everlasting? Why matter cannot be the Eternal? With The Name Of Allah, Ar-Rahman (The Bestower Of Mercy), Ar-Raheem (The Most Merciful), I start writing; Seeking His Help and His Blessings. Praise to be Allah (God), the Lord of the worlds, Who rose above the heavens over His throne in a manner that suits His Glory and Majesty. I testify there is none worthy of worship except Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and Muhammad ibn Abdullah (Peace and blessings be upon him), the best of mankind, is His last and final messenger. Summary of part 1: It was established that we are something, created of something which is eternal and the Eternal must be Limitless, Everlasting and unchangeable. Part 2: Now the question is who is this Eternal, ultimate origin of everything. If we ask this question to people, we normally get following possible answers: 1) Chance, Process or Evolution 2) Matter 3) God Let's analyze these answers to find out who is the Eternal: 1) Chance, Process or Evolution Chance: The term chance has two possible meanings: (1) disorder (2) reasonless (1) disorder: It was concluded earlier that the Eternal is limitless; thus if we say the Eternal is disorder, we are implying that at the beginning there was limitless disorder. Therefore, this answer is incorrect since we know as fact that there is order every where i.e. life and disorder cannot give rise to order because disorder * disorder = disorder. The authors of the book, The Universes of the Imaginator, argue that: "Indeed if disorder were the eternal reality, none of us would have been able to say so as a fact, since knowledge arises only from order" (page 19) (2) reasonless: To say that chance is Eternal and imply the reasonless meaning, we are simply saying that everything is just here without any reason. For example, you and me are just here; however, this does not the answer the question: where did we come from? Because we know that we are here but where did we come from since this is fundamental question we are asking. Thus, chance is not eternal. Natural Selection or Evolution: Natural Selection or Evolution is merely dependent process, how can it be eternal? Natural Selection needs things to work with, in other words something which have been already originated. a) things to select; b) different between things to select; c) criteria for selection and d) time or space to allow for the selection. Now, the process of evolution or natural selection only describes how things work, not what is the limitless eternal or where did things come from. If the things which act or react are not eternal, their action and reactions cannot be eternal either. Process: Now, this book refutes an interesting theory of process presented by Stephen Hawking. The theory is titled, "Wave Function of the Universe", and states that this universe could have arisen on spontaneously on its own. Let me quote this directly from the book: "How exactly does the wave-function law work? Smith Quentin explains it this way: He supposes that there is timeless space, a four dimensional hypersphere, near the beginning of the universe ... Since it was timeless, it no more needs a cause than the timeless god for theism. This timeless hypersphere is connected to our expanding universe. Our universe begins smaller than an atom and explodes in a and here we are today in a universe that is still expanding ... Fundamentally though, the theory itself fails as the correct for the following reason. The theory simply jumps into the expansion of the universe from a particular point and then proceeds to discuss "mathematical" sphere and so forth. The question is not how the universe came to expand from a particular point; nor is the question about how things have been working since the beginning; we're not interested in things which begin, but in things which didn't begin. If this so called nucleus of an atom were the thing that had been always, we would never have been born. This is because since from nothing, nothing comes, the nucleus could never have given birth to more than itself. Reality would have forever remained 'a timeless space, a four dimensional hypersphere smaller than the nucleus of an atom.' Have you seen an elephant lately?" (page 21-24)2) Matter Matter is not completely independent or one single thing. It is result of number of limited things which move or are movable. By move or movable I mean changing state from one to another. Therefore, it is limited; however, we have already seen that the Eternal is limitless. Hence, matter is not eternal. One another way to look at this is by asking yourself a question: If matter is eternal, then everything must have been its possibility but why did everything happen recently? Why were we born recently? There are only two possible answers: 1) The matter didn't always had the ability to produce the universe only until recently. However, there is big problem with this answer. If there was nothing beside the matter, where did it get the new ability from? 2) Matter did always had the ability to produce the universe but the change is simply an actualization of the potential of the eternal matter. Since, potential is something which you are not but could become given another condition, event, things etc but again there is nothing apart from the eternal matter, so where do the other come from? Also, remember that by definition the Eternal cannot change or give up something to get another! For example, if the eternal reality is a limitless carpet with endless green spots, then this is the world which have always been nothing else. Now, if universe is a red spot. How would the reality obtain this red spot from the endless green spots? It cannot since the green spots are everlasting. By definition, everlasting green spots are forever, they do not go anywhere or come from anywhere. The authors of the book mentioned above called this, the problem of the eternal. Now, for the eternal to get a red spot, it must give up what it is since there is opportunity cost in every action. Someone may argue that one of the green spot may become a red spot but where would the green spot go to make a room for red spot because there is no room for it since there is nothing beside the eternal? Therefore, if matter was eternal, it couldn't change or give up something, which it always have been, to become something. It couldn't give rise to change and thus it is not eternal. The other topics related to matter e.g. could matter have caused its own beginning, has matter been changing forever, has the universe always existed will be discussed in the next post, insha'Allah, as the part 2 will continue. wallahu a'lam (and Allah knows best)
__________________ Fi Amanillah Wa As-Salamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu Wa Al-Magfiratuhu The Prophet sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam said: "The Muslim is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind:Their Land is ONE, their War is ONE, their Peace is ONE, Their Honour is ONE and their Trust is ONE." [Ahmad] Shaykh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullah) said: "What can my enemies possibly do to me? My paradise is in my heart; wherever I go it goes with me, inseparable from me. For me, prison is a place of (religious) retreat; execution is my opportunity for martyrdom; and exile from my town is but a chance to travel." Imam Ibn al-Jawzi (rahimahullah) on the Ash'arites: "The heretics claim; i) there is no God in the Heavens, ii) neither is there Qur'an in the Mushaf, and iii) nor is there a Prophet in the grave;'your three shameful facets'" |
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