> Muslim Response to debate: Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?

[salman]

In this thread, I would respond to some of the arguments which David Wood brought forth in debates with brother Sami and Shaykh Jalal on the topic, "Is Muhammad (sall-allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) a Prophet?" I think both of the Muslim debaters did fantastic job and refuted all the arguments. However, I would like to clarify or present more arguments to expose the Evangelic opponent's arguments, ignorance or academic dishonesty. We'll go over both of the debates in detail, after I'm done with my exams, insha'Allah. Here is a quick response for time being. You can access both of the debates in this thread (Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?)

I think this response may turn out to be lengthy so I'm going to post the index here and then link it to each part of the response.

Shaykh Jalal VS David Wood

1- Introduction (Muslim Response to debate: Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?)
2- Response to Argument # 1
3- Response to Argument # 2 (Muslim Response to debate: Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?)
4- Response to Argument # 3 (Muslim Response to debate: Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?)
5- Response to Argument # 4

[salman]

Introduction

I seek refuge in Allah Ta'ala from my nafs and the cursed Shatan. With the Name Of Allah, Ar-Rahman (The Bestower Of Mercy), Ar-Raheem (The Most Merciful), I start writing; Seeking His Help and His Blessings. I testify there is none worthy of worship except Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and Muhammad ibn Abdullah (sall-allhu 'alayhi wa sallam), the best of mankind, is His last and final messenger.

During the debate with Shaykh Jalal David Wood said that Muslims commonly present following arguments to prove Islam or the prophethood of the Messenger of Allah (sall-allahu 'alayhi wa sallam)

1- Biblical Prophecies/Arguments
2- Scientific Evidences in the Qur'an or Sunnah
3- Qur'an's linguistic superiority or literary excellency
4- Morality

First, Shaykh Jalal mentioned at the beginning of his opening statement and later on that if you bring forth your arguments from Sunnah, bring the evidences which are from Sahih Sunnah. By that we mean, the narrations which have been accepted and authenticated by the scholars of hadith. Second, if you talk about a narration to prove your point, then accept the whole narration. However, it seems this simple concept is hard for all the hate-mongors to digest.

David mentions in both of his debates and in other debates that he relies on historical evidences and historical evidences, which proves the resurrection of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), convinced him to leave atheism. So, you'll hear him say older Islamic historical documents say this or that and the older an historical document more reliable it is. Well, David Wood was very keen to mention the two-quote fallacy in the debate between him and brother Sami; however, he forgot that just because something is old doesn't mean it is more reliable or better than something newer. Just because Bible is old document doesn't prove that it is more authentic or reliable than Qur'an. If we go with his theory then the old supposedly divine scriptures are more reliable and authentic than the Old Testament or the New Testament. This argument is well known as logical fallacy: appealing to old tradition. A person appeals to old tradition when he says X is old; therefore, X is correct or better or reliable in this case.

Now, the reason why evangelics hold to such bogus argument is that they heavily rely on forged stories mentioned in early sources such as Tareekh (History) At-Tabari by Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (May Allah be pleased with him) and Sirah Rasul Allah (Biography of the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him) by Imam Ibn Ishaq (May Allah be pleased with him) etc.

[salman]

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

I've responded to few of the arguments brought up by David Wood during his debates with brother Sami and Shaykh Jalal on the topic: "Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?"

I have only responded to few of the points and I'll continue my response. I also intend to responsd to Sam Shamoun's response to brother Sami's arguments. Brother Sami said that he will respond but if he doesn't do it anytime soon, then I'll do it, insha'Allah.

anyhow, you can read here what I got so far: Muslim Response to debate: Is Muhammad (peace be upon him) a Prophet?

Please comment or present any stronger arguments/suggestions that you may have so I could include them in my response, insha'Allah. Jazak Allah khair.

I think, i posted the thread in a wrong section, admins please feel free to move it.

[salman]

Scientific Evidences in the Qur'an or Sunnah

I'm not big fan of scientific evidences in the Qur'an or Sahih Sunnah. If they are there and clear, then allhamdulillah otherwise there is no need for us to interpret them or something like that.

Scientific Problems in the ahadith

a) Fly do not carry cure in their wings

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." [Sahih Bukhari, 4.54.537]

Recent studies have shown that this is scientifically accurate statement by the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). Please visit this link to find out more: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith

b) Adam was 90 feet tall

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall ... People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation. [Sahih Bukhari, 4.55.543]

I don't need to cover this, Shaykh Jalal responded strongly.

c) Water with dead animals isn't defiled

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything. [Sunan Abou Dawud 1.66]

So, they wanted to make wudu (ablution), the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) spoke from that perspective. He meant that this water is pure for making wudu. You can read a detail response here: Washing In Sewage Water

Scientific Problems in the Qur'an

a) Alexander the great and sunsets in murky water.

"Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water" [Surah Al-Kahf, 17, Ayat 86 - interpretation of the meaning]

First, where did he get the idea that Dhual Qarnayn mentioned in the Qur'an is Alexander the great? Qur'an tells us that he was a just and Allah fearing king but Mr. Alexander was a polytheist. Where did the comparison come from? Why do evangelic are quickly to merge polytheists believes with monotheism? We know that you believe 1+1+1 = 1 but this is too much. As far as know, no main Qur'anic tafsir (exegesis) say that Dhual Qarnayn was Alexander the great.

Now, going back to the other claim, if we read the ayat carefully, it says: "when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water". So Dhual Qarnyan reached a place where he could see the sunset and he thought the sun was setting in murky water. Where does the Qur'an say that sun sets in the murky water. What an academic dishonesty by this liar! If I go to the beech and see the sunset, it will appear to me as if it is sets in the ocean. We know that sun doesn't set, but to us it does disappear and we call this "sun set".

Please read this article for a complete and detailed refutation: The polemics, and not Zul-Qarnain, are in murky waters!

b) Shooting Stars are Allah's missiles to shot down demons

And We have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. [Surah Mulk, 67, Ayat 5- interpretation of the meaning]

1- As Shaykh Jalal mentions in his rebuttal that demons and shayiteen (jins) are two different things.
2- Shyakh also said that if anyone can show me a shatan (jin), then we can talk about it.

c) Ants talked to Prophet Sulaiman (peace be upon him)

This is where many evangelics lose their heads and let the hatred become batter of them. Let's read the ayat in the context, Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And Solomon was David's heir. He said: 'O ye people! we have been taught the speech of Birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah).' And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts ― of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks. At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: 'O ye ants get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it.' So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: 'O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: and admit me by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants.' [Surah Al-Naml, 27, Ayat 16-19]

The ayat tells us that Allah Ta'ala has given him the power to understand the language of the birds etc. Just like Jesus (peace be upon him) was given the miraculous power to heal people and raise the dead. Can David Wood or any of his Christians followers scientifically prove the miracles do happen? Can He scientifically prove that people can be raised from dead?

d) The sperm are produced between ribs and spine

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): "He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from between the loins and ribs." [Surah At-Tariq, 86, Verse 6-7]

Now, someone ask this liar, where does the ayat mentions the word "sperm"? The ayat says, "gushing fluid", referring to the semen not sperm. The semen contains many thing, one of it is sperm, which is produced in the testicles and other ingredients are produced somewhere between ribs and spine.

e) Human embryology goes throw a blood-clot stage

The Qur'an on Human Embryonic Development This is a good article which explains that human embryology's stages mentioned in the Qur'an are accurate according to modern science.

After mentioning all this, David Wood says that why would non-Muslims re-interpret these verses when they are clear. Well, Mr. David, readers can see that you have lied and now you should answer your own question and educate us.

[salman]

Qur'an's linguistic superiority or literary excellency

The Challenge of the Qur'an: "And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful." [Surah al-Baqrah, 2, Ayat 23 - interpretation of the meaning]

From what I understand from this ayat is that someone who is illiterate should produce a surah like that of the Qur'an. It means find an illiterate Arab Bedouin and help him out to produce a surah like that of the surah in the Qur'an. So, can David Wood and his evangelic hate-mangor group do it? Many has tried and failed, even during the time of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). Shaykh 'Abdul Wahab al-Turayri explains what does the literal challenge of the Qur'an mean:

A lot of people misunderstand the Qur'an's literary challenge to produce something like it. Many people assume it simply means writing something as "good" as the Qur'an.

Because of this, many skeptics point out – and rightly so – that literary value judgments are highly subjective. If someone says that he thinks a certain selection of prose or poetry is better than the Qur'an, who can argue with him? Isn't it really a matter of personal judgment and taste? Who is to be the arbiter?

The Qur'an's challenge, however, is not simply to write something of equal literary merit, but rather to produce something like the Qur'an.

You can read rest here: Understanding the Qur'an's Literary Challenge: to "Bring Something Like It"

David Wood says that this challenge is strange and "in fact Muhammad said my poetry is better than your poetry; therefore my poetry is inspired word of God ... Or suppose Shakespeare had said if my plays are better than your plays then I must be a Prophet." He continues and say that this challenge has been met many times before but Muslims disagree because they act as they judges when they're not suppose to be. He then in rebuttal mentions that good poetry doesn't prove that it is divine inspiration. Shyakh Jalal recited Surah Al-Kafiroun in his rebuttal so David Wood asked the audiences that how many of them, who are non-Muslims, were impressed by the recitation. None put up their hand so he concluded that the argument of literary excellency doesn't convince non-Muslims.

Let's debunk this trinitarian and teach him some history. We don't deny that many people didn't try to produce something like Qur'an. To see some examples, please visit this link and you can decide yourself: The Challenge Of The Qur'an

The Qur'an's literary excellency has been admitted by many, even by the greatest enemies of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). David Wood was smoking nonsense when he said that only Muslims are convinced and impressed by the literary excellency of the Qur'an. Maybe he would like to explain us, why did the people during the time of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) embrace Islam if Qur'an's beauty didn't impress them? Qur'an's beauty has impressed so many people and continue to do so.

Let me first quote some evidence involving the greatest enemies of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) in Makkah and then I'll quote some of the early reverts and then a little surprise for our trinitarian friend and group.

Evidenc # 1: The Quraysh decided to find a way to stop the pilgrims to hear the message of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

"They agreed that it was necessary to contemplate a device that was bound to alienate the Arab pilgrims from the new faith preached by Muhammad [pbuh] . They went to see Al-Waleed bin Al-Mugheerah to deliberate on this issue. Al-Waleed invited them to agree on a unanimous resolution that could enjoy the approbation of them all. However, they were at variance. Some suggested that they describe him as Kahin, i.e., soothsayer; but this suggestion was turned down on grounds that his words were not so rhymed. Others proposed Majnun, i.e., possessed by jinn; this was also rejected because no insinuations peculiar to that state of mind ware detected, they claimed. "Why not say he is a poet?" Some said. Here again they could not reach a common consent, alleging that his words were totally outside the lexicon of poetry. "OK then; let us accuse him of practising witchcraft," was a fourth suggestion. Here also Al-Waleed showed some reluctance saying that the Prophet [pbuh] was known to have never involved himself in the practice of blowing on the knots, and admitted that his speech was sweet tasting root and branch."
Source

Evidence # 2:

Al- Walid Ibnul-Mughira said on hearing verses of the Qura'n: "By God! Verily, the Qur'an has sweetness and beauty and in it lurks grace! At its highest it is fresh and leafy and at its lowest it is copious and abundant!"
Source

Evidence # 3: When the Qurysh sent 'Utba bin Rabi'a to bribe the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and when he came back he said:

"I have never heard words similar to those ones he recited. They definitely relate neither to poetry nor to witchcraft nor do they derive from soothsaying. O people of Quraish! I request you to heed my advice and grant the man full freedom to pursue his goals, in which case you could safely detach yourselves from him. I swear that his words bear a supreme Message."
Source

The same narration mentioned in Al Bidayah wa-Nihayah by Imam ibn kathir (May Allah have mercy on him) says that 'Utba said he has never heard something like that before. It is well known that 'Utba was a very good poet.

Evidence # 4: I can't find a reference to this but I heard in a lecture by an Imam that once the Quraysh decided to meet the challenge of the Qur'an so they found the greatest poet in the Arab area and he was locked in a room for a month to come up with something like Qur'an but he miserably failed as he continued to write and then erase.

I'll post the reference or remove this argument after confirming with my teacher, insha'Allah

Now, let's talk about how Qur'an has impressed people and continue to do so.

Evidence # 5: again, I don't have a reference for this but it will be posted later on, as i heard it in a lecture by an Imam. One Sahabi (forgot his name - May Allah be pleased with him) narrates how he embraced Islam. He said that when he came to Makkah for pilgrim, people told him that don't go near this man [Muhammad - peace be upon him]. He is a magician and if you hear his voice, you will be affected by his magic. So he said that he put cotton in his ear. However, he was curious so once when he was walking down a street, he took the cotton out of his ear and heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) reciting the Qur'an. He was impressed by its beauty and embraced Islam right away, subhaanAllah.

Edit-- This has been mentioned in the Sirah ibn Hisham, here is the source but my wordings may not match exactly

Evidence # 6: Why do evengalics forget the revert story of 'Umar bin Khtab (May Allah be pleased him). He was coming to kill the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) but someone told him that his sister has embraced Islam. So, he became very angry and came to her house and tried to kill her and her husband but he was affected by the Qur'anic ayat, which they were reciting and eventually he embraced Islam. Let's quote some narrations:

"After calming down a little, he asked his sister to, let him see the manuscript which she and her husband had been reading together. After she surrendered the manuscript to him, he read it and his face changed to an expression of regret for what he had just done. As for what he had just read, he was deeply shaken by its beauty, its majesty, the nobility of its call, and the magnanimity of its message."
Source

In another place, it is narrated slightly differently:

"'Umar read the verses with great interest and was much entranced with them. 'How excellent it is, and how graceful! Please guide me to Muhammad [pbuh]', said he."
Source

Evidence # 7: 'Ali bin Rabban at-Tabari (May Allah have mercy on him), who embraced Islam at the age of 70 and he was a Nestorian Christian said:

"When I was a Christian I used to say, as did an uncle of mine who was one of the learned and eloquent men, that eloquence is not one of the signs of prophethood because it is common to all the people; but when I discarded (blind) imitation and (old) customs and gave up adhering to (mere) habit and training and reflected upon the meanings of the Qur'an I came to know that what the followers of the Qur'an claimed for it was true. The fact is that I have not found any book, be it by an Arab or a Persian, an Indian or a Greek, right from the beginning of the world up to now, which contains at the same time praises of God, belief in the prophets and apostles, exhortations to good, everlasting deeds, command to do good and prohibition against doing evil, inspiration to the desire of paradise and to avoidance of hell-fire as this Qur'an does. So when a person brings to us a book of such qualities, which inspires such reverence and sweetness in the hearts and which has achieved such an overlasting success and he is (at the same time) an illiterate person who did never learnt the art of writing or rhetoric, that book is without any doubt one of the signs of his Prophethood."
Source: 'Abdul Aleem, I'jaz ul Qur'an, Islamic Culture, Op. Cit., pp. 222-223.

Evidence # 8: It is reported in Sirah by Imam Ibn Hisham (May Allah have mercy on him) that once Abou Sufiyan, Abou Jahil, and Al-Khanas came three nights in a row to listen to the Qur'an and they did so until dawn. However, each day when they were going back, they met each other and asked where they were coming from. They all had to admit the truth; so, they promised to each other that they won't come the next day because if others found out what they are doing, people will embrace Islam. These three greatest enemies of Allah were attracted by the beauty of the Qur'an and did this for three nights. You can read the whole story here

This is just one incident, but kufar used to listen to the Qur'an when Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) used to recite it. They were greatly affected by its beauty.

Evidence # 9: Last but not the least, I posted a recitation video on youtube, which you can watch it here (Emotional Recitation of Surah Al-Ahzab)

One of the commenter on youtube, Lot2Say, said: "I don't know what to say. I am not a muslim but that just brought me to tears. How beautiful." Anyone can go to this youtube video and read it yourself and mind you the ayat are not even talking about hell or paradise.

Maybe, David Wood should explain how come this person was impressed by the beauty of the Qur'an and many Muslim reverts in the past.

This concludes this section, allhamdulillah, I've presented many evidences to disapprove his hasty generalization and false claims. I'll deal with morality objections on Friday, after my exam, insha'Allah.

[Pk_#2]

Erm all the best sister,

Can someone make me a mod so I can get rid of all these trolls, does nobody else get annoyed by them?

I have never seen a forum as infested with trolls as this one, even bots are better than trolls, atleast they don't post!

AsalamuAlaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.

[Acid]

lol.

Islamiclife is a bro and not a sister.

Also dont forget to see and support my debate with a Chrisitian regarding terrorism in verses of Surah Tawbah.

Regards