> How to explain sects in Islam?

[Aayah]

Many Non-Muslims try to attack Muslims that they are not united and that they are not all following the same teachings, prophet....and sometimes God!!
Some of them said that each sect in Islam claim that it is the right one and all the others are wrong.

How can we reply to such argument in a good professional way?

[salamfromrom]

Salam

each sect in Islam claim that it is the right one and all the others are wrong.

Yes, each sect does claim it is the only way to salvation. What I usually tell people is to just read the Holy Qur'an, get educated about the fundamentals of Islam, and just follow their heart.

Allah(swt) guides whom He wills.

[salman]

It is very simple actually:

1 - Allah ordered us in the Qur'an that if we differ among ourselves then we return back to Allah and His Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam). But the question remains how do we do that, everyone claims that they have the proof from the Qur'an and the sunnah?

2 - The Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) already prophcised that they will be 73 sects among Muslims despite prohibition of making sects in Islam. He said only one of them will be on truth and that group is the one who is upon my sunnah and sunnah of my companions. In other narrations he told us to hold onto the jama'ah.

Hence, Allah and His Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) set a criteria for us to judge who is upon truth and who is not. The criteria is simple: we return back to Book of Allah and the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger - sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam - and we understand them how the companions (may Allah be pleased with them) of Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) understood them. Therefore, anyone who contradict their understanding is deviant.

Note: Remember that sects are defined by differing in creedal issues and fiqhi issues where aqeedah is the asl.

@salamfromrom

akhee, your response is good and sufficient, insha'Allah, but it is very important to make it clear that our methodology is to follow the understanding of the sahabas (radiAllahu anhuma) - this is what it means to be on haqq

and Allah knows best

[optimist]

Originally Posted by Aayah

Some of them said that each sect in Islam claim that it is the right one and all the others are wrong.

Salam,

This is the fact. Ask any groups in Islam. They will give you this reply. This is exactly what Quran said about the sects in 23:53 ("Every sect is in this wrong presumption that it is on the right")

Originally Posted by salman

The Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) already prophcised that they will be 73 sects among Muslims despite prohibition of making sects in Islam. He said only one of them will be on truth and that group is the one who is upon my sunnah and sunnah of my companions. In other narrations he told us to hold onto the jama'ah.

Note, this hadith is not recorded in either Sahîh al-Bukhari or Sahîh Muslim. The hadîth can be found in the four Sunan works and in Musnad Ahmad with different chains of transmission. Some scholars declared it to be authentic or at least good, including al-Tirmidhî, al-Hâkim, al-Dhahabî, Ibn Taymiyah, al-Shâtibî, and Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalânî. Others declared it as weak, including ibn Hazm and Ibn al-Wazîr.

Wassalam

[salman]

^bro, you don't believe in ahadith then why does it matter to you whether Sahih Bukhari or Muslim or any other hadith book? Secondly, so what if it is not found in two sahihs? Thirdly, the hadith has been reported authentically with different chains of transmissions and have been widely accepted by people of knowledge and you will spent days just to count all of them. The deception "some scholars" is not going to work here. As far criticism, then ibn Hazm was not a muhadith and him being a dhari Imam could have played role in his opinion. Even so the criticism holds no value when there is like ijmaa about this hadith and people specialized in this field accepted it, i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal rahimahullah.

You don't even care about statements of scholars so I don't know why you even quote them?

The modernists and reformists have problem with this hadith because it says that we have to follow the understanding of the companions - this is an atomic bomb for them and gives them heart attacks. So, they resort to typical madhab of jews - reject and distort the text and its meaning. This is only way the heretics can give wheels to their religion!

[optimist]

Originally Posted by salman

^bro, you don't believe in ahadith then why does it matter to you whether Sahih Bukhari or Muslim or any other hadith book? Secondly, so what if it is not found in two sahihs? Thirdly, the hadith has been reported authentically with different chains of transmissions and have been widely accepted by people of knowledge and you will spent days just to count all of them. The deception "some scholars" is not going to work here. As far criticism, then ibn Hazm was not a muhadith and him being a dhari Imam could have played role in his opinion. Even so the criticism holds no value when there is like ijmaa about this hadith and people specialized in this field accepted it, i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal rahimahullah.

Originally Posted by salman

You don't even care about statements of scholars so I don't know why you even quote them?

The modernists and reformists have problem with this hadith because it says that we have to follow the understanding of the companions - this is an atomic bomb for them and gives them heart attacks. So, they resort to typical madhab of jews - reject and distort the text and its meaning. This is only way the heretics can give wheels to their religion!

Salam,

Brother, you are not understanding the seriousness of the issue. Are you telling me that one sect 'will enter paradise and all other will enter hell' as the hadith specifically stating? How do you explian the verses in the Quran which states it is Shirk to be divided into sects?

Well, I never advocated rejecting all hadiths. If ibn Hazm and Ibn al-Wazir had any reason to suspect this hadith to be a 'weak one', you will be on safe side to accept their opinion because belief in this hadith will not in any way promote or assist our faith. This hadith goes against the spirit of some of the verses in the Quran. And even factually, if you analyse Islamic history, it is not just 73 sects that came to existance among Muslims. You will find more than a hundred sects. New sects are being formed also. In the place where I live in India, the so called Ahlu Sunna Al Jamaat (sunni majority party) who were claiming all the time they are the saved sect, now got split into two under two seperate groups. Now they are fighting for the control of some mosques and religious establishments. Even couple of mosques are shut by the court order and court proceedings are going on to decide the title for the mosque. People are confused who is 'the saved sect' now?

Well, you must know that this hadith is being used as a justification by all to promote sectarianism in Islam. Here is an incident narratted by an Indian writer Yoginder Sikand in his book;

Some months ago I attended a massive Barelvi gathering in Bombay, where I listened to the impassioned speeches of numerous Barelwi ‘ulama thundering against various other Muslim groups. Later, I asked a Barelwi scholar who was present on the occasion to tell me what he thought about the fiery diatribes of the ‘ulama against other Muslim sects. Especially at a time when Muslims in India are being hounded by Hindutva fanatics, was it right, I asked him, for the ‘ulama to promote intra-Muslim strife? Was it not important for the ‘ulama to help promote Muslim unity instead?

The ‘alim turned to me, and answered without batting an eyelid, ‘The Prophet had predicted more than 1400 years ago that the Muslims would be divided into 73 sects, all but one of which would go to hell. Now, if we try and promote unity between the sects that would be going against the saying of the Prophet himself. And that would be a very grave crime indeed!’

???

Wassalam

[Aayah]

JazakumAllah khair, some sects might go to interpret the Quran in a way that will fit their beliefs to claim that they follow the Quran and Sunnah.....I don't want to go through details, but some sects for example don't recognize Sahih Muslim/Bukhari as authenticated sources for sunnah, hence they condemn the others for doing that and claim that they are the one on the right path.

May Allah save us.

[al-boriqee]

all of you with the exception of one have given a disconnected lecture to her question

however, i really wanted to attack this bankrupt andcorrupted view before continuing to offer a more accurate answer to her question

Originally Posted by optimist

Salam,

Brother, you are not understanding the seriousness of the issue. Are you telling me that one sect 'will enter paradise and all other will enter hell' as the hadith specifically stating? How do you explian the verses in the Quran which states it is Shirk to be divided into sects?

The reason for this dichotomy exist in your head is because of the pure ignorance you have of the fundamentals of the religion.

The hadeeth and the ayaah are DISCONNECTED

in other words, the ayaah is making a DISPRAISE and warning Muslims NOT to become divided. Secondly, it is telling us that this is the practice of the mushrikoon, and not that the existence of sects ENTAILS shirk. These two errs of yours are merely with the ayaah alone.

The next err is your defunct construct of how you understood the hadeeth.

The hadeeth is a PROPHECY. In other words, the messenger was telling us that IN SPITE of the command of Allah NOT to become like the mushriks by dividing our religion into sects, the Messenger informed us anyway that IT WILL HAPPEN. So, In such a circumstance, the Messenger gave the Muslims a REMEDY to use as a criterion for which way is the right way in contrast with the other ways.

He said "those who follow me and what my companions are upon". In other words, the way of the companions is the criterion for establishing which Islam is the Islam and which way is a sectarian heresy.

The second preposterous error you made was when you understood the hadeeth literally. The phrase "into 73 sects" is concept that denotes multiplicity whereas the next phrase "except one" is another phrase that was emphasized as something contrary to multiplicity i.e. singleness. In other words, it should not be taken literally that there will be 73 literal sects, but any number of sects will appear in the ummah, and ONLY ONE will be on the correct way i.e. those who hold on to the rope of Allah.

It is these two outrageously ignorant deductions of yours that causes you to make gross and heretical errors like this

Well, I never advocated rejecting all hadiths. If ibn Hazm and Ibn al-Wazir had any reason to suspect this hadith to be a 'weak one', you will be on safe side to accept their opinion because belief in this hadith will not in any way promote or assist our faith. This hadith goes against the spirit of some of the verses in the Quran. And even factually, if you analyse Islamic history, it is not just 73 sects that came to existance among Muslims. You will find more than a hundred sects. New sects are being formed also. In the place where I live in India, the so called Ahlu Sunna Al Jamaat (sunni majority party) who were claiming all the time they are the saved sect, now got split into two under two seperate groups. Now they are fighting for the control of some mosques and religious establishments. Even couple of mosques are shut by the court order and court proceedings are going on to decide the title for the mosque. People are confused who is 'the saved sect' now?

Had you atleast known the above four facts I have just mentioned, you would not have jeopardized yourself with Allah for allowing your mind to even construe such a heretical understanding which is why I advised you on a number of occasions to remain aloof from all modernist/progressive material as it will harm yourself with Allah, and ultimately your afterlife and this is not what we want for you as we love for our brothers what we love for ourselves.

Well, you must know that this hadith is being used as a justification by all to promote sectarianism in Islam. Here is an incident narratted by an Indian writer Yoginder Sikand in his book;

the story you narrate below is not a proof for your claim which is that it is used by groups to promote sectarianism. Infact,even the musrhik you quote from, I understood it more correctly than you

ultimately, the basis for how you arrived to your original conclusion is due to the experience you narrate below

Some months ago I attended a massive Barelvi gathering in Bombay, where I listened to the impassioned speeches of numerous Barelwi ‘ulama thundering against various other Muslim groups. Later, I asked a Barelwi scholar who was present on the occasion to tell me what he thought about the fiery diatribes of the ‘ulama against other Muslim sects. Especially at a time when Muslims in India are being hounded by Hindutva fanatics, was it right, I asked him, for the ‘ulama to promote intra-Muslim strife? Was it not important for the ‘ulama to help promote Muslim unity instead?

The ‘alim turned to me, and answered without batting an eyelid, ‘The Prophet had predicted more than 1400 years ago that the Muslims would be divided into 73 sects, all but one of which would go to hell. Now, if we try and promote unity between the sects that would be going against the saying of the Prophet himself. And that would be a very grave crime indeed!’

???

Wassalam

That was an utter error, to use a mushrik called a brelvi to try to understand what he views as "unity"

this also tells me optimist that you likewise do not understand the concept of unity or the principles of unity, particularly how it can be achieved and what nullifies it. This is an entirely seperate subject that you and I can discuss in greater detail elsewhere

asalamu alaikum

[al-boriqee]

Originally Posted by Aayah

Many Non-Muslims try to attack Muslims that they are not united and that they are not all following the same teachings, prophet....and sometimes God!!
Some of them said that each sect in Islam claim that it is the right one and all the others are wrong.

How can we reply to such argument in a good professional way?

I cannot offer a detailed reply,

However, if you would allow me to explain the basis for why they say this in contrast with our paradigm, then you will understand how to approach the answer in the way you see fit (from person to person)

the reason why disbelievers in general ask this question is ultimately to prove that "truth is relative". In other words, they believe that "what is truth for you may not be truth for another" which is one of the greatest deceptions Iblees has ever played in man's history.

The second aspect of why they ask this question is because they themselves do not have a criterion like we have. In other words, they differ over the fundamentals of what necessitates religious proof. So because of this vacuum of being devoid of a criterion, anyone can be a christian and completely form an entirely new denomination (a fancy word for sect) and it will receive no condemnation from any other denomination simply because no one has a claim to orthodoxy. Anyone can interpret their scripture as they see fit as long as they affirm the divinity and lordship of Christ and the birth.

Our religion is UNLIKE this.

when someone decides to form a new idea in Islam, we have an established criterion to determine the orthodoxy or heresy of that idea. The criterion that we have is that we follow, understand, implement, and live by the Qur'an and sunnah ACCORDING to the understanding and beliefs of the companions and the whole of our way is determined by how they acted and reacted to events.

So when someone says that they have a proof from the qur'an or hadeeth, the ultimate criterion now lies in the fact of if the companions implemented or understood that ayaah or that hadeeth in the manner that he is.

So unlike every other way of life, Muslims actually have the ability to determine orthodoxy from heterodoxy, that other religions do not have.

Once you understand these two paradigms, you will be better able to articulate a response to such a question inshallah wallahul-alim

[salman]

^I cannot believe I forgot to mention this important aspect - jazak Allah khayran for bringing it up akhee